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You Need To See This

Discussion in 'Debate Archives' started by Patrick, Jan 28, 2012.

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    Patrick yada yada yada

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    He hasn't changed his agenda or flip-flopped in 10 years!
    Just listen, beginning to end--
    and Think, America!

    ---
    It's no longer about the Right or the Left
    It's about making sense in a senseless country
    After you've heard all the rhetorical noise and all the lies..
    There is only one voice left to finally hear.
    VOTE!
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    Will Graham At first I was terrified, then I felt powerful.

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    I am already voting for Ron Paul.

    Hands down.

    Best candidate I have seen since I started paying attention to politics almost ten years ago.
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    kisstheground rpgd's favorite drunk aunt.

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    No, thanks.
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    RomanHk t(^_^t)

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    I'm voting for Mickey Mouse. =/ I want to be able to complain but I sure as hell ain't voting for any of the people running that are up this time around. (Huntsman, why did you drop out?!)
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    Cobalt Her Cerulean Condescension

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    Not a big fan of his brand of paleo-libertarianism.

    Even aside from the fact that I like OSHA, the FDA, federal education standards, and federal civil rights legislation, the guy has a serious problem with LGBT people and people of color. Rather than reproduce the whole wall of text here, I'll just link something I wrote on the subject of Ron Paul and hope that it pretty much explains my feelings on it. I wrote it while my local "occupation" movements were getting overrun by conspiracy theorists and really openly prejudiced people, which is why you'll see a lot of language about "the 99%" in there. The people who were claiming in conversations with me that Ron Paul would represent all of us were using that language, so I did so here to mirror that.

    Anyway. The link. I don't think there should be craptons of cursing in there, but it is me and so I probably just don't remember all the profanity. *checks* Okay, yeah, first paragraph. *facepalm* Please consider thyselves warned.
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    Darkfire Literally Voldemort

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    You're going to have to forgive me, Cobalt, but one thing I've never enjoyed about how you and a few select others tend to debate is that you link to outside sites without stating your contentions or providing a sufficient summary or paraphrasing that actually exists on this site. We have no guarantee that your wordpress will exist tomorrow, or that any given public internet source isn't blocking it.

    Not only that, but the post you linked to is not exactly in a tone fit for RPG-D's debating atmosphere (while I won't claim to be the appointed speaker for how debates should play out, I do think that RPG-D is attempting to move in a more civil direction regarding the debating stage), and it may even be breaking a few conduct rules, despite not being hosted on RPG-D itself. :/
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    Patrick yada yada yada

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    Just out of curiosity, when you say "all of us", are you claiming to be a person of color? If you're not a person of color, I'd like not to be lumped into that bandwagon. I happen to be Native American. I also met Ron Paul in person 10 years ago, and know for a fact that he is not a racist.
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    Cobalt Her Cerulean Condescension

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    Darkfire: How would you prefer I give links? Would you prefer I simply not do so at all? Because I did actually give more context for my link than the OP gave for his, and I didn't see you getting on him for it. I guess I'm not sure how to make you happy.

    Patrick: When people claim to me that a man who has been responsible for the publication of virulently anti-black and anti-Semitic remarks and who would not even touch a gay person is going to represent "the 99%," I can only assume they mean the percentage of the 99% that is white enough and straight enough for Ron Paul. I'm glad that he treated you decently during your meeting. Do you think he would have done the same if you'd been there with a male spouse?

    Just because you personally did not see racism does not mean it isn't there. I'm glad that Ron Paul has evidently got Many Supporters of Color (somewhat like having Many Black Friends) willing to say that he's not racist, but just as having Many Black Friends wouldn't actually get me off the hook for my bad behavior, having supporters who don't think Paul's poor conduct and/or limited worldview is a problem doesn't mean that everybody who disagrees is wrong. It probably just means that it bothered them more.

    And I am not going to tell you my ethnic background. I pass quite thoroughly and consistently as white, and as a result I benefit from white privilege. How accurately that represents my family tree is not relevant to this conversation, because I am not going to get into a "whoever is less white wins" contest with you. Whoever presents better evidence wins.
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    Darkfire Literally Voldemort

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    The OP completely slipped my mind. So, sorry for that. Now that I think about it, though, this topic could use a title and content that's indicative of what it's about. I mean, most people who follow US elections could probably guess from the content, but it should probably be explicitly stated.

    Still, Cobalt, it really helps to know someone's contentions with an issue without having to go to another page in a debate.

    EDIT: Related to the debate at hand, I don't like to touch the topic of Ron Paul. I find both supporters and detractors to be a bit too weighted in their opinions.
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    Vanity Nah nah nah

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    I don't really know how elections work in America, so perhaps I'm being naive, but when I vote, I usually vote for the party which best represents my interests and has the highest likelihood of getting elected, given the odds (in Australia, we don't have a president, and our Prime Minister has to toe party lines, so we vote for parties rather than candidates, just to make that clear).

    I would never not vote for someone just because they had some beliefs or had said some things I disagreed with. That's an overly idealistic way to behave in the real world.

    However, since I am uninformed, can I ask who a better candidate is, Cobalt?
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    null moon you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer

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    I encourage everyone who thinks Ron Paul is some anti-mainstream revelation to read the scans of his 80s/90s newsletters, which spewed hateful, bigoted crap for over a decade. He did not write them, but let someone else write them in his name for years and made millions of dollars off subscriptions.

    There's also the fact that he is an anti-abortion gynecologist, which kind of makes me want to throw up. People who are both anti-abortion and anti-government assistance have a pretty cruel idea of what life for a woman should be like:
    Ron Paul says a lot of seductive things, but at the end of the day he's more like the other crooked old cronies than not. I would never vote for him.
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    Xalcen I'm Teemo and I know it!

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    Quite frankly, I dislike all five of them. I suppose I am not pleased with either side this go around. Do I know who I'll vote for? No. Am I ok with that? Yes.
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    Patrick yada yada yada

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    That seems to be the problem right there: Hearsay and making assumptions.
    I would challenge you to actually find a written quote or a recorded interview to submit proof to these allegations -- because the entire thing seems quite 'unconstitutional' to hang a man, or even slander a man.. without any evidence. Which was the initial point of my very first post: To listen for yourself, and to think.. for yourself. Regardless what everyone else tells you to assume.

    Peace.
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    null moon you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer

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    Check the link I posted. It's all there in black and white.
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    Patrick yada yada yada

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    You put in the disclaimer: "He did not write them, but let someone else write them..."
    Which again is only speculation and hearsay.
    Ron Paul didn't write that, and you yourself have no proof he said what the person who DID write it, claims.
    There is no viable source, and no corroboration to substantiate that bit of slander.

    You CAN, however, check the man's Congressional voting records, for they are public information.. and you can see proof that they have never deviated from the Constitution in a ten-year long span, particularly regarding the recent SOPA & PIPA bills, as well as the unlawful detention of American Citizens without jury or trial.
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    null moon you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer

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    ^ I still encourage you to give the letters a cursory glance. His name and signature are all over those documents, as well as a personalized memo soliciting subscriptions to it. Either he did know what was in the newsletters and didn't care, or he had no idea and was unknowingly raking in money for hate and fearmongering.

    Either way, my biggest problem with RP is with his anti-abortion/anti-assistance stance, and plenty of things in his voting record reflect that.
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    Johanna's Striptease That was fun! Let's do it again sometime

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    I'm pretty disillusioned with all candidates from all parties, to be honest. I also wouldn't be surprised if Romney got the nomination, thus negating Ron Paul entirely. When it comes closer to voting time, I'll check third party resources known for their objectivity and unbias, such as the League of Women Voters and the Christian Science Monitor (names can be deceiving XD) and make my decision from there.
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    Xalcen I'm Teemo and I know it!

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    You pretty much nailed it. What will likely happen is Romney will win the nomination and depending on the shape of the economy either Romney or Obama will win the general election.

    And I hear you on all the candidates from all the parties sucking. This to me seems like an election to me of not who I think is good, but who I think will suck less.
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    RomanHk t(^_^t)

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    ^ Vote Mickey!
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    null moon you may be a lover but you ain't no dancer

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    Basically. I remember the first year I voted, when it was Bush vs. Kerry, and that was the year of South Park's astute Turd Sandwich vs. Giant Douche episode.

    [IMG]

    I thought it was just a bad year, but now I'm starting to see that almost every year is like that. Wheee.
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