Ex-Staff That leave on bad terms...

I'm on an iPod so forgive me for typos or errors but I should be able to get my point across. As an administrator I've run into an interesting issue. A lot of applications weren't being checked properly and some event bent rules that only bent to an admin's will. I'm not going to name names but once me and another staff member began reviewing things by point of a community member, we found a lot of issues with most applications. Once we confronted the admin who bent rules about his own apps he got really defensive and abrasive. Eventually the matter was sorted out and things went back to normal.

Or so we thought.

The admin had resigned from his position for reasons I will not disclose as my personal bias will reveal itself in a very insulting manner. A bit of backstory, he helped kickstart the site, so I hear. The applications he reviewed were little to none and merely focused on his own. Suddenly he turns around as a community member and private messages me nitpicking at staff apps that we already knew we're in violation of the rules we were enforcing. Even moreso, he became highly sarcastic and arrogant, even going so far as telling me to do my job when I had just signed on from taking a break from the site for the day.

I was by no means civil in my response and was very naturally highly sarcastic and rude in the public cbox as I believe in repayment of what you deal.

My question to the 'D I guess now is more, "What would you have done?" Proclaiming multiple times of your massive involvement in the site creation doesn't constitute fairness if you're bending the publicly stated rules for ones you're coming up with that not many people agree with.

Also this is a simple questionnaire, I don't want hostility over this.

Staff members should be role models.

He wasn't.

*kicks him to the curb*

I don't believe that someone who helps to create a site gets a free pass. Even veteran players who have continued to play a game after X amount of years could be said to have contributed by their continued activity, enthusasm and pom-poming of game updates and announcements. That doesn't mean they can turn their backs on the rules or how they do things.

When a staff member or member leaves in a bad manner by flaming, being rude, disrespectful, blaming the rest of the community for their lack of pro-active gaming etc, I don't welcome them back. Ever. I actually ban them after they leave using the information tied to all their accounts, and if their leaving message (if they even bothered to do one) is rude or otherwise harmful to members or my site, it gets hidden away into the staff area for us to remember why it is we banned them (and for evidence that we can call upon if they ask to come back and we say no with them following it up with a why). Later, once they've definitely gone, I re-read whatever they put and investigate any claims they make that are nagative. If I find their claims were valid, then I improve the site in those areas. From my experience, those who flame when they leave are actually deflecting from their passive way of playing and getting threads.

If a staff member starts speaking of my site negatively on other sites, I will often go and ask them to refrain from doing that by email, and on the site itself, I will often report it to staff if it falls into their rules and I can. If I can't report it, then I try and stay out of the thread or respond in a way that is not biased or angered and isn't, "you're talking about MY site! How DARE you?!" - without revealing it's my site they're talking about unless they were the one to name it.

I've not had this happen very much. It's only happen twice that I can remember, and this was a person who couldn't see the difference between my various roles online and seperate them from my offline life either. The other guy was just plain horrid in PMs to everyone and everyone was glad to see him go.

My first rule on all my roleplay boards -- obey the rules and not the staff. Staff are there to enforce the rules.

Then later on, to make myself clear. I have another rule that then states that members of the staff are not exempt from the rules, and should be reported if they break them.

Nasty staff are toxic. Toxic, by definition, is something capable of causing injury or death. The best thing to do is not to let it get to you. If you got them off being staff, tick that off as a victory. Remember DON'T let them get you down and drag you into a mud-slinging match afterwards. Maintain the high moral ground because, between the both of you, they don't have any credit left in the good will, or a reputation, you do. I find being the bigger person is always the best vantage point to be as a staff member.

Well, while it wasn't a good idea to blow up in the Cbox, it's done and hopefully that's been buried under a pile of much better messages there. I would try to keep stuff like that out of the Cbox and if I knew I wouldn't be able to rein myself in, I'd keep out of the Cbox altogether.

Start going back and looking at those apps and other stuff. Everything that's his ought to be removed - I'd archive it in the staff areas rather than deleting it but that's my choice. Everything that's NOT his that belongs to people still on the board ought to be edited into line with your vision for the board. Give people time to do this - when I altered StC's app form, I gave people time to edit their apps into the new format.

Put up an announcement just to say that you're going back to your particular vision and XYZ ought to be edited from character apps. DON'T go mudslinging or be in any way derogatory about this ex-staff member - you're moving on from the drama so be the bigger man and put on your professional hat for admin stuff to do with the fallout from this drama.

Show the sort of stuff you want on your board by behaving the way you'd like others to behave. Lead by example - if the RP stuff was going in a direction you didn't like, or including stuff you didn't like, bring it back to how you want it by writing the sort of thing you'd like to see. This will do two things: bury the old stuff and give an example to your current and potential members for how you want things done in future.

Here's the thing, he's not officially banned or removed from the site. I'm still letting him run around primarily as a member because I'm not going to make a hasty decision. The cbox was originally purchased by him and it's technically his, sure it's nothing I can't replace easy, but I'd prefer not to burn bridges where I don't have to. He's been a long time friend of mine for about five years so that's easily clouding my judgment on this situation and we've bumped heads and have gone at each other and even given each other the silent treatment for a couple weeks.

Everyone's right, common admin etiquette is to not let the arguments go public yet it was deemed unavoidable when he dragged it out there. Some of the other staff aren't as fresh so they slightly contributed to it though it was primarily me when we bumped heads. Ultimately though he's still around, and while he hasn't done anything yet today, I have a feeling he's going to be sarcastic, tell me and the other staff (one of which is my girlfriend whom he's never really approved of us going out anyways) to do our jobs and basically stop being lazy admins.

Our head admin hasn't been able to do a whole lot with his now busy lifestyle but we get him on from time to time. The other admin has little excuses, and me and my girlfriend are dragging ourselves to the site with preparing to move into a new place in less than a week's time now. Maybe I'm at the point where I'm just looking for something to vent, or maybe I'm legitimately confused on what I should do at this point.

Thoughts?

(Also I highly appreciate your input on the matter.)

This is in no way an appropriate or mature enough attitude for a staff member. Payback never is. As a staffer, you have to rise above whatever the erring member is doing, and be the better person. However much support you think your member base or other staffers gave you for this, one thing you can be sure of; they are wondering if you'll do this to them in the future.

As for the former admin: I'm a little unclear on what he did. You said he pmed you, but you took it to the public cbox. Did he do anything in public before you took it public? If not, I'm afraid the responsibility here is pretty much on you for the drama. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying the member is right. What I'm saying is you responded in just about the worst way possible. What I probably would have done was sat on the pm for awhile or even handed it off to another staffer to deal with. Often the staffer the communication is not addressed to has a much clearer head because it isn't their buttons that have been pushed.

I know that it isn't, I am aware that it was in the wrong and I accept the fact. As an admin I have a duty to uphold what's right and what's wrong. However, he was the one that instigated the drama in the cbox after the pm. My brash and hasty actions filled with irrational thinking was indeed wrong, and I have no means to justify it. Basically, he started telling me as an Admin to do my job and was indirectly saying that I was a lazy and terrible admin. He practically beat around the bush with it, but the sarcasm was still dripping there.

Once again, my actions were not justified, nor am I trying to defend my own actions for this.

Okay, that pretty much clears that up. Well, in that case, a definite ban from the cbox is in order. It's up to you whether you want to make it permanent or ban him from the site entirely. But I'd let him know in no uncertain terms that he will earn a permanent full ban if he ever behaves in that manner again.

My advice is to be explicit about the potential to earn punishment. By no means by rude, or sarcastic and condescending -- but be plain and outright. If he brings it up again in the cbox, tell him upfront and objectively that his behaviour is unacceptable as a member and that if he keeps this up, then you will punish him. Even better if you have rules about respect on the site, and you should for using the cbox at least in terms of respect for other members. Always stick to the subject and avoid being drawn in for a fight. I bet you a shiny dollar he says, if he is sarcastic as you say, that he was joking or he never said that. Tell him that his attitude is easily misconstrued by other members, especially new ones, and you expect him to stop now that you have told him outright not to do it again.

I personally am usually bright, ditzy and happy in the cbox -- I find this makes maximum effect for what I like to call my 'admin voice'.

I appreciate the assistance and advice on this matter. The confusion it brings with being his friend is extreme, I am not sure I'm personally capable of handling this in a calm manner so the primary admin of the website has told me to ignore him for the time being. It seems that's the direction this will be taking and I appreciate the assistance everyone has been donating to this.

I should preface this with the fact that I usually err on the side of forgiveness more than anything else.

I won't even mention the cbox issue. Stuff happens and the world keeps on keeping on, but I do think there are instances where you can certainly forgive the person at least as a member. When staff get fired for flagrant misjudgments, my reaction is simple. Fire the staff member, let them know what happened and why, and then let them be a member business as usual. It's extremely rare that I'd be in the position of banning someone because of something they did (plagiarism comes to mind immediately). I realize that this staff member resigned, but it's probably very likely the case that they might have felt they needed to resign to avoid being fired. I'd essentially treat this as the staff member being fired, but again, I usually err on the side of forgiveness.

So, if I were in your shoes I definitely would have fired the staff member but let them continue to be a member. (Or I guess I would have let the staff member resign as the case may be). Any kind of inflammatory PMs or comments I'd simply treat like any other comment. Eventually they will get bored and leave or they'll make their own case to the rest of the members on your board and you'll be placed in a position where the majority of your members are aware of the problem member and want them banned--or even better, they just won't play with him anymore and he'll be forced out without any more attention from you.

Most of the time it doesn't come to that, in fact, usually everyone eventually just settles down and all rights itself in the world. Either that member leaves and makes their own board or everyone just lets bygones be bygones. My point is really that it's much easier to just let the issue take its course. The member will let you and the rest of your community know what needs to be done in due time, no need preemptively punishing them especially when they've already been fired from staff. I'd also definitely go ahead and buy your own cbox at this point, if only just because it's not that much money and that probably seems like the more fair thing to do.

I wouldn't have been an a**hat to be honest. I have an Internet conscious *aka my Internet wife*. I'm rather fluffy. I understand that he sounds like he was being a douche but I would have likely not dignified him with a response and if I did I would have dignified him with some PC response about getting the information taken care of and since he wasn't a staff member any longer that he should not concern himself with such relations anymore.

If I was a creator but not the primary creator then I'd be pissed for that to happen to me but really if I were bad enough to make the site fail then I shouldn't be a staff member anyways.

So far it seems he went and found himself another site to do both roleplays at, so he's either planning on leaving and isn't going to tell us or is going to balance both until he feels I'm being disrespectful. It's pretty constant that whenever I enforce a rule someone doesn't like, I usually get called a Nazi Admin and am pretty much shot at like that. Especially to people who think power goes to my head because I'm enforcing rules we have set up.

I'm pretty sure said member is trying to get me knocked down from admin position as well by doing it through other channels. I can't be certain of that though. I know he's telling my girlfriend to keep me in check where I feel I've done nothing wrong (Admin wise as to the fact of enforcing the character application rules, not the incident in the cbox).

Be firm, stick to your guns and don't let what he tries to do get to you. Everything will be fine and no matter what this nonsense will blow over eventually. As I always say, just keep on keeping on.

As someone has already said the staff members should be the most respected, fair, active and mature members of a website. They are the rolemodels and it sounds like this guy was not.

It doesn't matter what site you join sooner or later there will be drama and sooner or later there will be 'ragequits'. The guy feels upset because of his 'loss of power' and is attempting to disrupt your site and cause drama... if it were me i'd block him from aim/msn and ip ban him from your site/domain/roleplay. That's at least how I would handle the situation... you don't want hostility? Just cut them off and ignore them... the sooner and forgotten the less drama is dragged out and made into an issue.

I've seen this happen several times before and unfortunately some people jump onto the staff team of a site for the wrong reasons. They think it's a 'status' thing and enjoy the 'power'. I've seen a couple of players join 2-3 new sites each month and immediately jump into the open moderator spots just so they can say they are a staffer on all of these sites... people like this and the guy you mentioned are doing it for the wrong reasons.

The interesting part, I clarified with him when me and him separated our friendship, was that it was apparently not the fact that I took power and changed everything that caused it to progress. It was the fact that I, as a friend, was supposed to be defending him when everyone turned against him. What makes this so interesting is the fact that they turned against him primarily for their own reasons and seemingly "ganged up" on him according to him and his wife (whom blamed it all on me naturally cause me and her hate each other).

I was partially keen on avoiding him for a while, and a lot of it was about how I didn't forgive him nor apologize for my actions. While I felt my actions weren't truly right in a justified sense, I didn't feel that forgiveness was in order nor did I feel the need to apologize because I felt that after all he said it wasn't enough.

Though it seems that this entire thing now really just turned to the fact that me and him were pretty much having petty arguments, so I'm not even sure if this thread is entirely relevant.

*offers up moral support*

It's hard to go through this sort of thing, I know it's stressful even for the best of us. Personally, I've been in your position more times than I'm willing to admit. While I agree that right now it'll be hard to forgive and forget I do think, given some time, you should consider that option. No apologies or awkward conversations needed in my book, just wipe the slate clean if only to clear it out of your head and be officially done with this nonsense.

Although I feel in no way that I have to really defend myself in this matter. I will say you shouldn't post something like this, especially when you're only showing one side of the story. I built the site with the main admin, and after he took a break from it I literally did everything up until I appointed Marc an admin. So you shouldn't exaggerate the story, although I really shouldn't expect you to be honest or straight with the real story. I hardly had my first wip application up because I was so focused on structuring the site and helping everyone else out, so don't insult me by trying to make it seem like I did anything less than do right by the members on the site.

We had a disagreement, one that I felt was caused by a misunderstanding and severely poor communication on both our parts. It then escalated when all of my applications when on trial when you said yourself that others would be in review, when at first it was all on me. This caused everyone on the site to believe I had somehow been cheating them, or that my judgement was poor and I lost respect in an instant when it could have been contained privately. I stepped down because the respect I had from some of the others was gone and I did not wish to be an admin if the members of my site did not see me capable. So I left it in you and the others hands, there was no ulterior motive there. No exaggerated plot to get revenge, just plain common sense.

Then when the site immediately lost it's steam and you got on less and less, some of the others stepped up and wanted me to resume my role and get things running again. I was ignored for quite some time while you all congregated about the idea. Then You refused and instead of letting me have my position back and at least try to revive things, you closed down the site and ruined it for everyone who had been waiting so long for things to get rolling.

Things were said that I wish were not said, You got angry and I got angry. And yes, after all these years my wife got tired of seeing me emotionally hurt by our arguments so she decided to defend me without my knowledge. I did not even realize what had transpired until I saw you removed me from your friend's list. And to make things worse, your girlfriend did the same which hurt more because she was my friend before she was yours. And your reasoning for why you deleted me was because I took my wife's side instead of going by the "bros before hoes" philosophy as you stated. I don't operate that way, and I stand by my wife whether I agree with everything she says or not, it comes with being married. But even still I apologized, as prideful as I am, your friendship meant more to me than my own selfish pride so I apologized. I simply asked for you to apologize in return, because the things you said to me in anger crushed me. And you could not, would not do so, nor would you admit you did any wrong in the matter.

I state all of this for no one in particular, not even you Marc. I just felt the other side of the coin should be shown here. You know.. I never did this when you deleted me. I mourned like I had just lost my little brother, I finally stopped crying and took each day one step at a time. Letting you be, because it was your wish to remove me from your life. I didn't go around sulking and fumigating over you, I wished you to be happy and one day for you open your mind and see with a heart clear of grudge. Even today I tried again with you, tried to get you to reason with me so there could be some hope at salvaging our friendship because despite the fact that everyone tells me I should give up on you, I didn't want to.

Having been through something similar, @Satoshi Uchiha you should address this with @Marc Firewing in private or in person, not in public on RPGD. It's been my experience that doing so only makes things a thousand times worse. They came here for advice. Now the two of you need to chat it out privately to resolve the problems. If the two of you can't come to an agreement, then either agree to disagree, do not roleplay with each other but remain friends, or go your seperate ways.

I was simply stating my side since he wished to make this public. I apologize for any inconvenience to you or this site, I promise it won't happen again.