So, i'm taking a break from writing an essay, and was reading some rants and well... I think some people have some very skewed ideas. Ideas are your own. They are Intellectual property. Meaning you own them.

"Intellectual property represents the property of your mind or intellect. It can be an invention, trade mark, original design or the practical application of a good idea."

(taken from HERE)

You cannot tell a person that their ideas are not their own and everyone has a right to use them. I mean COME ON.

Yes, writers use other writers as influences however they never copy entire phrases, stories or plots- unless they are appropriating them, in which case they give due credit. Authors will also rather readily admit their influences.

I think the problem with the roleplay world is that people will not admit where they got ideas from, which upsets people.

Yes, I know sometimes it is a mere fluke to people have the same ideas

but when a person who used to be a member of your site opens their own site that uses: similar applications, similar plot, similar ideas ect...

Well, it's pretty safe to say it wasn't a fluke right?

What's wrong with saying "Hey, I like the way you set out those premades, mind if I use a similar layout?"...

I think generally people demand credits because (in my case/personal opinion) they are so cut that a member whom they thought was loyal has made a competing site, instead of helping build up the current one.

Oh and, back to "Intellectual property" for a moment:
If you use ideas of someone else in an academic essay WITHOUT credit (citation) you could possibly be done for plagarism.

So please, don't tell me my ideas are not my own, because thy are. I'd appreciate it if you'd respect my mind.

a) This does not apply to the UK
b) What was the point of putting this in a new post when it directly relates to one three posts down? Isn't that against board rules?

I didn't see anything in the rules saying I can't rant about a rant.

Also. Google it. I found sites from the UK gov saying pretty much the same thing the australian one did.

"Intellectual property (IP) can allow you to own things you create in a similar way to owning physical property. You can control the use of your IP, and use it to gain reward. This encourages further innovation and creativity."

-shrug-

Actually, my rant had nothing to do with roleplay boards. That was your assumption.

I was ranting about the weird and crazy obsession with crediting on the internet in general.

Also, you seem to have misinterpreted your own quote. "...practical application of a good idea."

The idea is open to interpretation by anyone. It's the practical application of the idea which is yours alone.

Which I believe I addressed in my original rant. Hmmmm?

Tough crowd.

I think people take RP too seriously at times.

People should just calm down and not spoil for a fight. Not everyone's out to get you. *nods* Peace, calm, kumbiah. Or however you spell it.

One question, though: How are you going to prove you *thought it* first? ... seriously.

I mentioned a couple of ways how you can prove you thought of it first in my reply to the other thread. If you have a file with a creation date (as all Word files do) or a dated post on your site, you have proof.

One thing I do with my professional work, on the advice of a copyright laywer, is send myself a hard copy of anything I write or draw that I plan to later use publically in a sealed envelope. When it arrives, I don't open it, I just file it. That way, I have a date stamp on my work from a third party. For art images I put on the net, I have an imbedded copyright verification number. It's a service I pay for yearly, but well worth it.

Intellectual property/copyright laws apply the minute you create something, they don't have to be formally registered.

</devilsadvocatepart2>

Uhm

Wouldn't the creation of a roleplay forum actually BE the practical application of the idea for a site?

And I'm not saying randoms you've nevere met using ideas the same as yours. That IS hard to proove

But honestly, when it's one of your own members, i'm pretty certain it's not a coincidence now is it?


And Vanity, hence why I didn't reply to your thread, because the rant it sparked in my head was not on the exact same topic.

"Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation." http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

"Unfortunately, despite what you may have heard, there is absolutely no way to protect an idea through intellectual property law. Copyright protects expression and patent law protects inventions, and neither protect ideas." http://www.ipwatchdog.com/inventing/patent-ideas/

"Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, styles, techniques or information.

For example, if you write an outline of your idea for a TV show, the written text will be protected by copyright and, generally, someone wanting to reproduce it would need your permission. However, someone else could write their own script, using your ideas, without necessarily infringing your copyright." http://www.copyright.org.au/information/in...on/intro-15.htm

I could go on, but this is using time I should be employing for speech-writing.

In the last rant, many people were talking about directly copying someone's work. That is different to copying an idea. Ideas are not copyrighted.

"Copyright protects the original expression of ideas, not the ideas themselves." http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/ip/copyright.shtml - Same site that Sniks quoted.

Ideas for roleplaying site plots/trends/other things are not covered by law, only by courtesy.

Hence the point of writing it down and mailing it to yourself - so it's written down. Documentaition is the key. And that's why I said *create*. The idea has to be expressed to be protected, as Emma correcltly pointed out ;).

edit - one day, I shall learn to type, and then watch out world! *sigh*

Regardless of what can and can't be copywrited

I still strongly believe that you can own your own ideas, and it is well within your rights to be upset when someone takes them.


Also, by using your quotes

"For example, if you write an outline of your idea for a TV show, the written text will be protected by copyright"

that would mean that me writing an outline for a roleplay plot, or the plot itself, will make it protected by copywrite

Meaning that if someone uses that outline to reproduce something similar they'd "need your permission"

And to me, this isn't just about the 'law'

it's about respect.

It takes two minutes to ask a person to use their idea, and just as long to credit them if they ask for it.

Is that REALLY too much trouble? To respect another person?

The end of that last post was what the previous rant was about. When you posted a new one, quoting 'intellectual property', I assumed you were talking about the law, because in the previous thread people were not disputing that it is disrespectful to purposely take a fully-formed idea from someone else without credit.

That's true. However, say your roleplay plot was that every human has a pet and one day the pets rise up against the humans (because they are genetically engineered to be intelligent) and now the humans are oppressed and trying to fight the pets. If I saw that, there would be nothing stopping me from then using that idea of genetically modified pets rising up to oppress the humans on my board. If I used your outline or any specifics in your plot it would be against the law, but not if I just used the basic idea.

Not that it matters, because to prosecute someone for taking something word-for-word is silly. It's just roleplay and the important thing is not that they stole your work, but that you must then do it better. So I wouldn't mind someone stealing my plot/rules/etc, because it would force me to strive to keep my board as the best.

...I take severe offense to that.

If someone spends time working on something, the author dedicates part of his or her life to that project. That's time spent on hard work that can't be gotten back. And if someone else decides to steal something that I wrote word for word and post it without my permission (I don't CARE if they give credit - they better have my permission) then you can bet I'm going to raise holy hell about it, because that's -my- work. Just because that person was too lazy to do their own work doesn't mean I should just let them walk away with mine.

I've been going to school for writing for nearly four years now, and I've never met a single writer who thought laws on plagiarism were silly. As roleplay is a form of creative expression, the same rules apply. Borrow, warp, improve on ideas all you want. But take my words strung together in my order and there's a problem.

I was just talking about in the roleplaying world and if you want to bring someone to court because they are too immature/new not to take your rules word-for-word then yes, I would call that silly. And I'm sorry that it offends you. But the cost of time and money involved to prosecute someone because they took 'please do not steal' from your board is just so not worth it.

It depends. Will I take someone to court if they copy my rules word-for-word? No. Will I ask for credit or for the person to remove the rules? Yes.

However, if someone takes a plot I came up with, I'll do anything I can to get it taken down. I can't think of any one person who would be so stubborn as to persist until it came to legal action, as most roleplayers are teenagers and even the idea of legal trouble would scare them out of their pants. Normally all it would take would be an email to the board's software provider, and proof (which I keep track of religiously - having been plagiarized before, I document EVERYTHING) that the idea was originally mine.

However, if I found out someone was taking my idea from a roleplay and making money off of it - heads would roll. Lawyers would be on the phone so fast the plagiarizer wouldn't know what hit him.

I'm just a tad passionate on the subject, as you can tell. :-p

I can tell, yes ^_^ I were talkin' about prosecution in the legal sense of the word. I dinnae dispute anyone's choice to bring down other forces for copying.

P'raps you ought to worry less about it. I have never been plagiarised even a little bit and me not caring whether I am or not. Them stealin' people probly are attracted to those who get het up about it. Or it could be that I've nothing of a quality to be worth stealing xD

I do agree with you on the monetary side of plagiarism. It's one thing to steal because you're lazy and you just wanna have a bit of fun, but another to make money off it. That's bad.

It really depends on what the idea they're borrowing from you is. If it's something obviously completely original like 'Jack and Jill went up the hill, and the hill turns out to be a euphemism for a shared manic delusion, then they killed a lot of people and fell down together in a shame spiral and eventually 'broke their crown'ed teeth which held cyanide capsules beneath them' then yeah, you have a right to be upset.

But if it's something they've showed someone else, and that person said, 'Oh, yeah, I've been at a few other roleplays with that same idea, they were fun' then maybe you don't deserve to be as upset as you thought you did.

This is also true.

However, my point still stands that most people I've seen steal from me have been ex members, so no matter how original the idea is or isn't, it's safe to assume they got it from you.

It seems like a trend: admin annoys you, so steal their idea and make your own site.

It just seems petty honestly.

Also, legal and moral are two different things. Is it totally legal for someone to directly copy your RP plot, especially if your RP is based on preexisting material? Yes, it is, particularly if you're already standing on the shaky legal ground of 'derivative work'. Does the fact that it's perfectly legal make them any less of a douchebag for doing it? Absolutely not.

I think this is more of an ethical debate, by far. And honestly, this isn't a business- we have no written code of ethics. Does the RP community have some unwritten standards? Possibly, but that certainly doesn't mean everybody's going to here to said standards and of course that IS unfortunate. But to make it into a legal thing just seems futile.