I'm sitting here watching the Republican National Convention. I'm watching it cause I like to know both sides. Mayor Guiliani or however you spell it, said something about the war in Iraq. He said something about terrorism and the war.

First off, I would love to know what terrorism we have seen in the last four years. I would love to see how we have allowed terrorists into our country since that dreadful day of 9/11.

I was one of many Americans that witnessed on TV the second the second plane slammed into the tower. I was only in 8th grade at the time, but I understood what it was. I do not disagree in the US for wanting Bin Laden's head mounted in my living room. Hundreds of innocent Americans died that day. For what? What did they die for?!

I did not disagree with going into Afghanistan to retrieve that head. I fully support our troops in Afghanistan. But Iraq? Why did we need to go into Iraq?! Here is where my blue blood shines through. I do not believe in this so-called war in Iraq. There is no purpose for us to be over there and I want us out. I agree that it will be a slow withdrawl as do many Americans. But is this war morally correct?! How can you, John McCain, sit there and say that we need to destroy the Islamic Terrorist?! I only recall one Islamic Terrorist that dared attack us and where is he at? I still want that head.

I want this war to end. I want my American troops home. I support them. I grew up with Military blood. I know what it's like to be an American. But every second I watch this rally of retarded older white people I get angrier and angrier.

Experience doesn't mean anything as long as you believe in making a better United States. What is it you all have done, Republicans? Look at the wonderful moron you currently have in office. I do hope you know that America is sick of this war. Do you think sending in more of our Troops is going to make you win the office? Not for a long while will I ever see the Oval Office run red.

It's time for a change, John McCain. Your political stance right now is that Barack Obama is inexperienced and stupid. You sir, yes you John McCain are the inexperienced and stupid one. You have not once shown that you are any different from that moron currently in command of my country.

I refuse to let this country run red for another four years.

I will vote for Barack Obama in November. It's time for a change. It's time for a new America.

As I read this, all I could think of doing was....well...

Posting my full agreement in this thread. I have been so ashamed at what our government has been doing these past few years. President Bush has been a disgrace, and has lied to the American public time and time again.

We almost impeached a man for screwing around on his wife.....but Bushie has lied time and time again, and his old ass is still in office....He should have been impeached YEARS ago. ESPECIALLY after Hurricane Katrina...His handling of that tragedy was atrocious, and it caused the people of New Orleans to not be ready for Hurricane Gustav this past week. The leeves weren't all fixed, and they leaked something awful...

Well...

Thank you for making this thread! *offers cookies of awesomeness*

I don't like either candidate myself. It's like South Park said...it will always be a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwhich.

I think most of everyone can agree that ANYONE is better then Bush. xD

Anyone IS better than Bush... except Barack Obama.

I'd rather have 12 more years of Bush than 4 years of Obama.


I'm not a republican. I'm not even really a democrat but I registered as one. But I REALLY don't like Obama.

I think he's an idiot.

And that is where I say you are wrong.

Just by hearing that Convention today, ug. It's Bush the III. If Palan was a Democrat, I'd give her credibility. The fact that her 17 year old daughter is knocked up and she has a child with a disability seems to make her all of a sudden popular. No. Just no.

Do you honestly want that running your country?!?!!???

This war needs to end and we need our troops out of Iraq. We need to start drilling oil in our own country. McCain doesn't want to do that. He's play with the masses. He's voted time and time again AGAINST drilling oil in our nation. When Clinton was in office, the country was slowly starting to be pulled out of debt. The second Bush got in, our country went down the hole. McCain will not make it any better.

I hate political parties. However as a person just about to earn their degree in political science and reading most of these posts (MOST OF THEM I disagree with completely) I'm not going to respond because a passionate response would be useless on the internet. Just another complaint etc. etc.

However I want to point out one fallacy in your statement. Please review WHO exactly makes decisions of money and economics in the US government. Everyone seems to be under this misconception that the president controls spending. He submits a budget and can ASK the CONGRESS for money through the appropriations committee. Then it is brought to a vote.

The reason WHY debt was made up for was because of the congress at the time of Clinton's administration, not because of Clinton himself.

That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

:D And here is where I aced Government.

At that time, Congress was controlled by Democrats. I do know it takes two out of the three to pass anything. With help from both Congress and Clinton, we were able to pass stuff that helped the economy.

The past few years have been harder to do so. Bush is hated by a lot of people. Congress is now run by Democrats and I fully believe a Democrat will be in office for the next four, maybe eight years. I say it's time to give Democrats a chance to show what they can do after this giant screw up Bush has done.

That and I hate McCain and I'm a Democrat. >>

Actually... Republicans were the majority and in control of congress fully from 1994 to 2000

Well HOT DAMN! PEOPLE LIKED CLINTON!

Bush sucks.

A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE OBAMA!

McCain doesn't have a personality.

Long War Journal.

It's. not. just. about. America. 9/11 was just our wake-up -- though it's clear some (mostly with Ds after their names) merely rolled over and hit the snooze button. The rest of us have been paying attention. It was going on before 9/11, it's been going on since 9/11, and it will be going on for quite some time. Longer, if all we do is throw 'nuance' and moral relativism at it.

I could go on a rant that would scorch your eyeballs about the cowardice, incompetence, ignorance, and hypocrisy of the Democratic Party that is embodied in Barack Obama, but I would put it on the Politics forum where political discussions belong. *cough*hint*cough*

:p Exactly. You said it better than I could. [/end Dec's minirant]

There have been no terrorist attacks upon US soil since 9/11. The man that did attack us on 9/11 has not been captured.

That is the basis of this whole rant.

The fact that no one seems to care that this war in Iraq is completely pointless because it did nothing to help us get the man that kill hundreds of innocent Americans.

And any person that says the attacks were because of our own stupidity needs to be slapped from here to the Middle East. Stupidity or not, innocent Americans should not have died.

Maybe that's because it ISN'T the reason why we are in Iraq? In fact, I don't even think that was on the list.

I'm pretty sure the whole Bush administration and REPUBLICANS lied about the reasons in going into Iraq. We are not needed there and we never were. If they want to kill each other, let them! But to send our men into a country that doesn't want our help with anything is just killing the men that we so truly love and believe in.

The War to end Terrorism.

Pft.

The War to Fix Bush Sr.'s Mistakes.

I don't disagree with anything other than the fact that Barack Obama is the answer. That's just laughable. As much as it pains me to say this, I'd have to agree with Catalyst about Bush v. Obama and that's saying something.

That is completely unfair and you should know better having just gone through your teenage years yourself. A parent can only do so much to raise their kid right but in the end, it's up to the kid to make their own decisions. Palin shouldn't be held responsible for her daughter's actions.

And... Obama spent twenty years listening to Jeremiah Wright's banter...



Do you honestly want that running your country?!?!!???

How many of you are still living on your parents' money? I promise I'm not trying to be flippant -- I love it when youth have well-thought passion about politics, because it gives me hope for the future -- I just want to point out that life is very very very very very very very different when you are trying to pay your own bills and the price of food and gas have tripled, you can't keep a job because 30% of companies in your field have outsourced your position offshore, and you can't stay healthy because even though a quarter of your paycheck goes to insurance, you're not actually covered for anything other than a $40 doctor's visit.

All of these changes are a direct result of Christian Coalition economic policies that continually give favors and tax cuts to the wealthiest 1% for power bias reasons. Calling them Republican is a misnomer, since the Republican party hasn't been focused on traditional Republican values since before Reagan. Hint: the major values the Republican party were founded on were fiscal responsibility, states' rights, and smaller government.

Cal, I'm out on my own barely making it. My fiancee and I have one car. We have to drive about ten miles to get to our works, then he delivers. I do understand the difficulty of being on my own. ^^

And as for Palan, she is taking responsibility. Until the end of time will she always be held at question for her daughter stupid action. Also, she will get sympathy votes just for that and her mentally handicapped son when he get's older.

I will also not deny that many African Americans will vote for Obama on the shear note that he is black. It's foolish and quite stupid, but it's true.

As for Jeremiah Wright...oh Jesus. How could anyone listen to that for twenty years?! lol
I find Obama's handing in the way Wright criticized him was very mature and level headed. He acts like an intelligent man. He is trying to send a message across no matter how many times we are fed up with hearing the word "change". I've caught his message.

And there is the fact that he acknowledged the fact that he can't do everything he has promised to do, but he can set up for the future America and hope we continue to follow through.

Call me crazy, but that's the smartest thing I've heard out of a politician in years.

What terrorism has happened on American soil since 9/11? Maybe not a direct physical attack like the one that happened that day, but there are two things that make me feel pretty terrorized and attacked. Sadly, it's by our own government.

The fact that we now have a law that makes it possible to arrest anyone, anywhere, anytime for any reason the government wants and then hold them for an indefinite period of time without charges, contact with an attorney or their family, even for just 'looking' like a terrorist. Thank you Patriot Act.

The presidential executive order issued by Bush that makes it illegal - a prosecutable offense - to speak out against the war in Iraq or the administration's poliicies there, thereby criminializing the antiwar movement and erasing the right to dissent. http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=172&a=2839 . That essentially makes this entire thread illegal. Fun, huh?

I'm not from the usa and I agree on your comment but

Don't forget all the other people who died that day, not just Americans.

Oh yeah. Forgot that there was a foreign policies building either in or around the towers. D: I need to remember this crap.

But mostly Americans died. <<;;;

EDIT:
Insert foot into mouth. *thumbs up* D: Way to go, you idiot. >< *tries to put foot in mouth*

Huh just read sometime a bit surprising. When the planes stuck, 20,000 people were predestined to be in the area, yet it the attack had taken place two hours later, the predicated numbers would have been around 50,000. If the strikes had been in the middle of the day, and the impacts had been centered and at the 45th floors (just above the surrounding buildings), 30,000 could have been trapped and killed.

I do not support modern Republicans. The traditional Republican ideals are appealing, but have been lost somewhere along the way, and do not appear to be making a comeback. I plan to vote for Barack Obama, even though I have reservations about him myself on many levels, but for the sake of being a smartass, I'd just like to correct your first post on one point.

Watch this video. She makes sense... sometimes. I'm merely speaking of the facts she presents there, not affirming/denying my agreement with her stance on racial profiling. Hah. Attacks directed at the US are not necessarily required to be on US soil. So if you want a head for every act of violence against America, you're going to need quite a few. Fun fact, embassies are technically considered to be part of the country they represent. Attacks on our embassies can be "direct" on a diplomatic level.

Scary, Jay. Scary. D:

I don't think the Middle East has really attacked our embassies in the last seven years! If they have, the news is good at keeping it hidden. D:

I'm directly talking about the "Islamic Threat" that they so proclaimed last night. To me, that sounds very un-Christian and seemingly stupid coming from educated White Men.

My knowledge of American politics is limited at best, so I really have no place to argue with you folks, but I just wanted to point a few things out. Everyone makes a big song and dance about 9/11, and by all means it was a very tragic incident, but do you know exactly how many people died? Three thousand. In the past five years the death toll for Iraqis has been well over a million, about ten percent of whom were innocent civilians. I'll let you guys do the maths.

And another thing. This war is about far more than just America. It's not like our politicians know how to think for themselves these days - pretty much the whole UN is just trailing after you yankees, and so far your government's failed to set a very good example. And as far as I can see, with those two for candidates, things aren't gonna get much better.

Holy schnitzel, wow.

You have just demonstrated the two-party trap to the extreme. How sad that people will only vote for their own parties and dismiss people they'd otherwise vote for simply because they don't belong to X Party.

On another note--I wasn't going to post in here until I saw that, but now I have to say this as well--I'm sure that many, many children of politicians get pregnant or get other people pregnant. ;) However, Palin's daughter just happens to be the rare case that carries out the pregnancy. (The family is pro-life; what do you expect?)

Lots of teens have sex and some get pregnant. I don't think it's right, but I'm not holding it against Palin.

I would like to know where you are from. I really would love to know.

As you said, your knowledge of American policies are limited yet you are here in my rant pointing fingers at us.

The UN actually denied letting us just walk into Iraq. They don't want us there. Please get your facts straight. Those that came to help us were our allies. And to us Americans and especially the young adults my age, 9/11 was a big deal. We lived to see it. We didn't live to see Pearl Harbor or the Vietnam War. We weren't around for the assassinations of President Kennedy or MLK. I know of 9/11 and of Katrina.

Because we can't kick the hell out of nature, I can't say much against a natural disaster other then Bush and his administration are morons. As for 9/11, I can demand revenge.

You are not of this country and you possibly could not understand the way we think and feel. You are not American.

The UN follows us around because the United States is the big shot right now. What will those idiots say to us? "NU! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!?!?!????! *pout*" Oh wait...that is what they are doing!

The UN does nothing because no one around the world can agree.

The family is also insistent on abstinence until marriage. Whoops!

XDXDXD

I heard that somewhere, too. I giggled muchly.

Allow me to first say: I'm not registered to vote and doubt I ever will be for I think our voting system is absurd and I'm against political parties.

But I had to interject here.

Loads of Iraqi's were killed by their fellow countrymen in a nice juicy war of Shiites and Sunnis. So don't try that martyr crap. It's not like 3,000 is the total number of American ever killed in the history of the world, either. I sense a bit of prejudice from you, dare I say.

A laugh at the fact that America is supposed to set a good example. Really- pray tell what other country is going to set a great example that will work for the people of the free world, please? No country is ever going to set an example good enough for everybody. Again, nice try.

And the UN does NOTHING. Doing nothing is not the same as supporting the US.

Please please please don't get angry with me. I hate it when people get angry with me - and as far as I can see, there was nothing aggressive in my post. I'm not condemning the American people, I'm only saying that I believe the American government could do more to set a good example for the rest of us. The war in Iraq is, in my opinion, a mistake, and frankly the UN just isn't powerful enough to stop America (at least not when they disagree so much, as you said). I'm sorry if my facts weren't right, but I'm entitled to my own opinion.

This is why American's scare me. They're all so patriotic. *cowers*

(And by the way, I'm British. You know, since you asked.)

...*tries to keep hands from typing things that later will be read and ignored*

Ugh. I knew someone would bring up the UN. I'd like to let everyone know that the UN is an organization that really is there just to make you feel better. You know those resolutions? Well they only work when you have agreeing parties and a force to back them up. It's all well and good for Iran to say to the UN (and this is an example so do not take it as truth) "Oh we won't deal in nuclear weaponry", but without OTHER governments providing this thing called deterrence such as "YOU STOP THAT IRAN OR ELSE WE WILL WITH THESE MISSILES" the UN and all its sanctions are worth nothing.

It's a great idea in theory, but most theories... well... they really don't work more so on a global stage.

By the way, I'd like to point out that a certain candidate was proposing to go to the UN Security council to put sanctions on Russia what with its invasion of Georgia. This candidate kind of forgot that Russia has a PERMANENT seat with VETO authority on this council. I'm sure you know, they wouldn't dare veto sanctions on actions against their own country when they justify what they are doing.

*whistles*

There’s a saying

Due to America's massive power, there actions effect the world so much more than the actions of other countries, so I do take sides with Zanie on his point on of America giving a good example but I won't compare a singe incident to a war, the numbers will be very different as can be expected.

Anyone remember 7/7 London bombings, that too took a great number of lives to but I'm feel sad to say, I rarely see anyone kicking up much fuss about the matter any more.

Have not read the entire thread, just reached this part and decided to reply based on the little knowledge I have on this matter.

Bin Laden is not the be-all and end-all of terrorism. He is one guy who was a main player in a plot to attack the U.S and other countries, capturing him and him alone would not mean that you've captured all of the players behind 9/11.

I dunno why the U.S is in Iraq, I dunno if they should stay there or not. But to think that the war in Iraq is useless because Osama has not been captured is foolish. There are a million factors in terrorism and counter-terrorism, and the US is one of many countries which are faced with the threat of this sort of terrorism, if their presence in Iraq has helped stop terrorist activites ANYWHERE, whether in the U.S or out of it, I'm all for it.

And, isn't the fact that there have been no terrorist acitivies in the U.S a symbol that something is being done right?

I'll just state that I'm not knowledgeable in this area and I dunno WHAT the U.S is doing ir Iraq or Afghanistan, but I'm sure it's not useless, there must be a good reason behind it.

Madrid 3/11?

All the other 100 casualities or less incidents that plague the world every month which have a direct link to terrorism?

No one cares about those except those who were directly affected, but people are still throwing tantrums over 9/11. It's like that is the only terrorist activity to ever occur.

I agree completly, makes me sick really lol

I know this a stereotypical thing to say, but that's the way the U.S have always been like. If I recall correctly, they got into WWII because they were attacked by the Japs (not sure about this, but I know the U.S were on the wrong end of something, and they got involved) and if I'm not mistaken, communism became a real issue only when it was right on your doorstep.

People only care about something when it's affecting them, which is understandable, but the wrong way to go in our new world.

Where was everyone else's help with 9/11?

The second there was bombings in Spain and Great Britain, we Americans were upset and offered to help you guys out any way possible. That is probably why there are British soldiers helping ours in Iraq.

I'm American. 9/11 is an outcry for me as an American. I'm sorry, but I was not as affected by the British and Spanish bombings.

And as for the UN...they are pathetic and do nothing. When they were created in the 40s, Roosevelt and Eisenhower both wanted nothing to do with it. That shows how much it does.

And what is this I hear about UN troops raping women in their camps in Africa? Yeah. UN. You're pretty cool.

EDIT:

OH HERE WE GO! :D *studied much into World War 2*

The US was involved with World War 2 before the attacks on Pearl Harbor. We were sending money as well as supplies to Great Britain and the Allies. We were sending aid. Our Government did not want to get involved with it because, back then, WE WERE SMART!! We didn't want to get ourselves involved with other affairs that were not our own. We would send aid, but that was it.

The second Japan brought us in was the second that the war was changed. I fully believe if the US did not get involved, Hitlar would have taken over Europe. I'm sorry, but you all should be thankful that we helped and really should read info before you go on and judge us.

I wish we were like we were back then. Staying out of wars was a gooooood thing.

And the whole Communist thing was stupid. Not gunna lie. It doesn't affect us, but some people believe that we need to be the Big Brother and protect everyone. BS I say. If you can't take care of yourself, why should we care?

Because these people are human beings and if we can offer protection to those weaker or less fortunate than ourselves, who can't do it for themselves, I believe we should. I care because one day I might need the favor returned. One day I might need help. And because it's the right thing to do.

I probably have a different perspective on this because I was a military kid. My dad was career Navy, in Vietnam, and my hub's dad was career air force in Korea and Vietnam. We both grew up knowing that freedom isn't free, and that if you can help your fellow man, including protecting them, you should.

One of the reasons that the U.S. acts like a world police force is that we actually can - meaning that we are fortunate enough to be able to offer this kind of aid to other countries, not that we think it's some kind of god given right (though admittedly at times we certainly act as if it is).

As for staying out of wars and letting people take care of their own business, that's a very hard argument for anyone to make, I think. Yes we sent aid before sent we troops in WWII, but maybe if we'd gotten involved sooner, the Holocaust would not have been as severe as it was. Maybe the Serbs would not have been massacred in the desert. HItler himself said no one would remember it happening just a decade earlier in WWI, so they would be able to do it again without incident. And he was right. Maybe if we'd gotten involved in Iraq sooner, Saddam would not have been able to simply eradicate a huge percentabe of his population without the world so much as blinking an eye. Maybe 9/11 would never have happened, who knows?

Maybe I'm just naive or too alruistic about this topic,I know that are lots of less pure reasons for joining in a conflict. But when I think of inactivity in the face of world crisis and need, I always remember the poem by Martin Niemöller about the inactivity of German intellectuals during the rise of the Nazi regime:

"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."


I will always speak out.

Thank you! I wanted to use that quote but forgot how it went.

Frankly, every country needs allys, and should the 'Islamic Terrorists' attack the U.S you'd be singing a different tune regarding the whole 'take care of yourself' ideal.

I wasn't suggesting that the U.S need to protect the entire world, no country should have that responsiblity, but terrorism was a big deal for many years, and it only became a big issue in the U.S (yes, you had organisations combating it, but the regular citizen did not care about terrorism nearly as much as they do now) after 9/11.

And why are we still talking about 9/11? The U.S has big problems in the U.S, terrorism should be a big issue, but not as big as its made up to be. And all this revenge talk is quite refreshing, because, if certain countries were to seek revenge for past actions, we'd be having a whole lot of dead people in the world.

It's one thing to seek justice, it's another to seek revenge.

EDIT: And excuse me Hikari, but get off your high horse. I should not be judging America because they intervened in WWII?! Right, so, I should be eternally grateful and turn a blind eye to anything else your country might do? If a policeman killed someone, should I not judge him for it because he saved many other lives?

I'm quite seriously appalled at your attitude towards certain issues. 'If you can't take care of yourself, why should we care?'?! Why SHOULD we care about Iraquis being eradicated by a dictator, they can't take care of themselves, after all. Why SHOULD anyone care about 6 million jews dying in the Holocaust, they can't take care of themselves, all the more reason not to help them.' Hey, don't help that woman who's getting mugged, she can't help herself, after all!' Let me ask you, if the entire Middle East gangs up on you, and you're overriden and outnumbered, and can't defend yourself, should Europe intervene?

And actually, in Spain, and many other places in the world, charities and groups came together and sent help and provisions. Religious groups prayed, and young adults offered to go and help in any they can. You know, and the U.S DID have the resources to help themselves. So don't act like you're the world's saviour. You've done good things and bad, just like every other country.

And I'm not saying you're supposed to feel much because of the Madrid and other attacks. But we're not making a big thing out of them anymore, why are you making 9/11 still an issue?