So when a mutual friend comes online, she's excited. Why? Because she has a boyfriend and they click awesomely and she's all fluffy and giddy.

Whyyy did you males have to be such killjoys?!

Yes she is a lesbian. Yes, she is with a--gasp--male. No, she still doesn't like men. She, however, found an exception. It happens. Heck, it happened with me! My best friend is straight, she had and still has a boyfriend, but she fell for me and we were together for a year (yay polyamory). She was always marveling over that, too, because she seriously wasn't and isn't attracted to girls--she was attracted to me. She's still straight. She still doesn't like girls like that. It confused the heck out of her ("...I don't like girls. But...you're a girl. O_o"), but she still defines herself as straight because she doesn't feel like she's bi.

So I can totally understand that phenomenon. It happens to straight and non-straight people alike. Sometimes, you find that one person who is an exception. This friend did, and if she says she doesn't like guys but she likes this one guy, hey, that's her call to make because those are her feelings.

So who are you to tell her any different and tell her it doesn't work like that?

Who are you to tell her how she should define herself?

Who are you to tell her that she's wrong and that, actually, she's bi when she says she's not attracted to men, just this one person?

That's up to her!

It's her choice how she labels herself. These are her feelings, not yours.

I don't see why it's a big deal. O_o The point is she's happy. That should be the only part you dudes focus on, period. Why does it matter to you what her orientation is? Why do you need it to make sense to you? Why do you need to give her a hard time?

Just STFU and let it drop! She's happy! That's ALL that matters! Frankly, it's not really your business or choice what she does, and I don't see why you have to make a big deal out of it.

And for the record, yeah. Sexuality is a fluid thing. It's not always carved in stone, yo. These things happen.

It's life. And sorry, but life just isn't black and white.

Whew.

But thanks for giving her a hard time and making her joyous news so danged awkward. Really, good job there. -__-

-rolls eyes-

Don't they understand that people are not generalisations but are, in fact, completely unique individuals?

-beat-

How can anyone give someone else a bad time about getting a boyfriend? Over their sexuality? Stupid! Who cares if she's lesbian, bi or straight? She's attracted to specific people, not genders. Just as we all are. I know I'm certainly not attracted to every male on the planet.

Okay, wow, that is really ridiculous.

Personally, I believe that sexuality is fluid. It's not something you can control, and it can change over time. And sometimes, even though you swing one way, something may happen where you find yourself attracted to someone who is not your general inclination. It happens.

Personally, I identify as bisexual (well, more pansexual really, but I usually say bi because people actually know what that is). I find myself more attracted to girls than guys. Yet I have only ever been with guys before. That doesn't make me straight. That's just what circumstances have given me.

Sexuality is such a personal thing and it's not something set in stone, I just can't understand why other people don't get that :angry:

<333 You Emma. You said it more perfectly in that short blurb than I did in my massive rant. xDDD

And whoo, Ryl! I'm pansexual, too (and also tell people I'm bi for simplicity's sake). I've only ever been with a girl (well, unless you count kissing a few guys and not really caring for it, but there's also a big difference in kissing someone to experiment and kissing someone you're truly head-over-heels in love with ;D). It always irritated me so much when one of the same friends that is giving her a hard time was always like, "But how do you know you're pansexual? You've never been with a girl!" (That was before I was with one). AUGH.

I can understand a question like that for curiosity's sake, but jeebus. You don't have to kiss someone/have sex with someone to know you're attracted to them. That's like saying, "How do you know you have a crush on that person? You've never kissed them!"

Logic, peeps! xD

But I also think it's a very fluid thing. Humans are complex creatures! We don't fit in nice, neat little boxes.

xD Wai thank you. I love you too Rhi -snuggle-

Eh he. A lot of people really don't engage their brains when they think about something that is countercultural or strange to them. In my class we're studying polygamy and all my classmates are going 'ewww that's so gross! They're perverts/brainwashed/stupid' while I'm wondering why they think monogamy is so perfect.

Soooo with you there. I've kissed a girl or two and not been interested - but I've kissed far more boys and not been interested. In fact the only person I've ever been interested in kissing is my recent ex-boyfriend. If I feel nothing about the people I kiss and yet am attracted to them...what's wrong with me? -angst-

Dude, stabby kill it.

I have a personal belief that people aren't attracted to genders, but the other person themselves... I also believe there's 'someone' for everyone, so this fits in with my theory that people are generally attracted to people who are similar to the one they're meant to be with.

Sad, soppy... a little pathetic, but it works.

I identify as straight, so the person I'm meant to be with, is probably male - or a female who is much like the men I'm attracted to.

If you get what I mean, anyway. I have kissed girls (heck, it's fun XD) and imho - they rock over guys (bahaha, sad but true) but at the end of the day, I can't see anything going further than 'fun'. That to me makes me straight. But yeah, it's too confusing an issue to try and make sense of, really. We like who we like, people should just get over it.

Mmm, Mousie's got a point there. If you look up the works of Freud you'll see one of his fundamental theories, that everyone in the world is born bi-sexual. And most know that Freud lived a long time ago and pioneered Psychotherapy so....yeah. It's an older idea.

Personally, I am bi. And I have nothing against people or sexuality.(Pansexual is a newly coined word that I really do find amusing, but I still differentiate between girls and guys, lol) I've kissed girls and guys, and I honestly don't really see the difference because 3/4 of the time we were all blind drunk happy wheee anyway.

People choose partners based on their compatability, not gender. Unless you count people that are extremely lonely and grab hold of the nearest living thing for companionship. Believe me, i've seen that happen. *SIDENOTE: Not an attack at anyone here >.>*

Honestly, people who try and fit gender/sexuality into those 'neat little boxes' need to a) look outside the box itself and b) GET OUT OF THE HOUSE. *cough* Or maybe resolve some of those suppressed, unresolved sexual issues. *cough*

That's been a life philosophy of mine for a long as I can remember. Or maybe I've just been reading too many books on Psychotherapy.

BUT; then there's the religion thing. So if you love your religion and it doesn't tolerate homosexuality, then fine. Who are we to judge on beliefs, morals, ethics and values?

PS, Freud is awesome, but his theories on stages are a touch suspect..........................

This is why I like the kinsey scale.

*cough* Kinda offtopic, but isn't pansexual the same as omnisexual, and therefore include animals and stuff too? .. Sorry, I had to ask.. I'm a Torchwood fanatic, and the word omnisexual is probably one of the main words you think of when you hear the words "Jack Harkness", I think that guy has a problem. He's almost literally kissed/slept with EVERY CHARACTER ON THE SHOW, as well as a few aliens. Annnyyhoo.

EDIT:;// Thank you wikipedia.. so pan and omni are not the same xD *feels like an eejit*

I guess I agree with you xD But since I'm.. ahdunno.. a late developer, I guess, I haven't really fancied anyone that much, and so I don't really have much experience on the subject.

Like I have always said, I don't see gender, I just see people.

Not quite. And Jack flirts with everyone - but he's still a guy who can get in a committed relationship. Just look at him and Ianto! I mean, personally I hate that pairing, and I hate that it is not only canon but is given attention over all else (Ianto is so boring and I can't stand him and I was always a Tosh/Owen fan, those two are my favorite, and MAN did they get the short end of the stick), but it does definitively show that Jack is a loyal guy when in a relationship.

Also keep in mind that he's not a modern-era guy. He's from 3000 years in the future. For his time, his behavior is very normal, I'd guess. Sleeping with or kissing people is not inherently a bad thing, anyway! I hate that assumption that if you flirt with, make out with, or sleep with a lot of people you automatically have a problem and are a slut.

And anyway, Jack has the best quote ever on this topic - "You people and your quaint little categories." Pretty much sums up all that needs be said.

firstly rhi, lol at your avatar, that's made me happy for the day :lol:

i don't really consider whether someone has a penis or a vajina, it's whether i like them or not. You could say the same thing's about having friends. and have you noticed, the people that generally rant about being straight, are usually the sexist people, who see the opposite sex as tools.

Yeah, I disagree with all of you.

You're a person aren't you? If she claims to be straight but is attracted to a female, then she is not straight. That is like a slam on the gay community or even the bisexual community. I declined being bisexual for years. Years despite the fact that I was attracted to both men and women. It was one girl that pulled me into the light. I loved her, but I also loved a guy.

Sexuality is a big deal. It's a big deal to those who live every day being criticized for the choices they make in sexuality. I look around and see all those little fake girls and boys claiming to be something they are not. When you sit around and say that it's nothing, then you're insulting my choices and the choices of my friends who are either gay or bisexual. It's not fair to us.

Being gay still isn't a free choice in many states or small towns. My friend was physically beaten every day for being a lesbian. No matter where she went, she was called horrible names. Things were thrown at her. People wanted to kill her. She was threatened in school to be shot if she was ever seen outside!! Do you honestly think that saying "Sexuality isn't a big deal," to her will make her really, really happy?

I don't. I'm not happy about it right now.

If that girl can't come out of the closet, then she's faking it like most little girls I've seen. There is a difference between sexuality and love. That is not sexuality. If she's not physically attracted to girls, then there ya go! It's not not NOT sexuality.

Ohh no, pansexuality doesn't include animals or children. Basically, pansexuality is about genders. It's bisexuality, only a bit broader and probably only makes sense to people who identify that way. P: I've tried explaining it to friends and only confused them, haha.

Bisexuality assumes a traditional gender binary of male/female. Pansexuality recognizes that there are more genders out there and includes transexuals, genderqueer, etc. It recognizes that there are many genders out there--or rejects the notion of gender at all. I fall into the latter category myself, as I don't believe in gender. x3

Gender as in all the mental stuff, sex as in one's physical make-up and genitals.

In a nutshell, I like to sum up pansexuality with one line: love knows no gender. I look at people, not at whether or not they have boyparts or girlparts. xD

---

And Lady Hikari, it's not a big deal. I don't think it's a slam at all, and I'm speaking as someone where the only relationship I've been in has been a homosexual one. I'm frickin' pansexual and genderqueer.

People make a big deal about sexuality, and that's why there are issues with it in society. Because people make a big deal about it. If people just treated people as people, then I think things would be much better.

Personally, I do not define the whole of my existence by my orientation. It's part of me--but a ridiculously small part that only matters when it comes to relationships. So no, sexuality is not a big deal--unless you are basing the entirety of your being off it.

I'm more than my orientation, yo. I'm not about to make it a big deal. Yeah, some people have had a problem with it--but they can get over it, because I don't care. P: I'm me. Not a label of "gay, straight, bi". Pffft.

And yes, I have encountered a lot of issues due to my orientation. It can be hard. But I deal with it, am happy with who I am, and again--it's not the end all, be all of who I am.

And it's not a matter of coming out of the closet. Sexuality is very fluid. You can sometimes find someone who is an exception. I've known plenty of people, gay, straight, etc. who have found that one person who is an exception over what they normally go for, whether it's someone of the same sex, opposite sex, or heck, even of another religion (which can be just as big of a deal). I think people should label themselves as whatever they want to label themselves as. It's their choice, it's their emotions, and see...that's exactly the problem my friend was having.

These guys were hazing her and telling her that no, she was bi. She kept saying no, she's a lesbian--this man is the exception, she's happy, and that's all that matters. Who are you, or anyone else, to tell her what she is and what she isn't? I think that's her call to make. Same goes for my friend--who yes, is straight by her reckoning. I was the exception for her, because I was the person she liked enough to overlook her usual reservations and preferences.

That happens. Their choice what they call themselves. Maybe they are bi? But if they say they aren't, I'm not gonna drag them out going "YES YOU ARE! YOU ARE BI! STOP DENYING IT!"

That's stupid.

I'm insulting no one. ;D

It is insulting if you've never had to go through what some of us have to be who we are.

If you're claiming that some girl loves you, then it's love. Love is something completely different from sexuality. I can love a man but be attracted to a female. That is my sexuality.

What you are describing is love. I love my sexuality. Everyone has a sexuality. By saying that it's not a big deal, then what is it to me and the countless others that love who they are?! Sexuality is a big deal whether or not you think it is. Love is what you are talking about.

I can love anything. I love my iPod. I'm not sexually attracted to my iPod. I'm not even physically attracted to my iPod. There is a difference of what you were talking about between sexuality and love. Please get the difference correct.

Um...dude. Please don't do the martyr/persecution thing, 'kay? xD I've dealt with my share of issues because of my orientation before, so let's not assume too much, yeah? And I'm not seeing what's insulting. I think people are just too touchy and PC.

I love who I am and what I am. But I'm more than my orientation. Thus, it's not a big deal to me, because frankly my dear, I don't give a damn what orientation anyone defines as. xD I'm me. My orientation is a small part of my whole. They're people. I see them as more than just arbitrary labels.

It's not a big deal to me. I'm not ashamed of my orientation at all; I'm pretty danged open. It becomes a big deal because people make it a big deal and then issues arise from that. For example...if intolerant folks didn't make it a big deal, then it wouldn't be one, y'know?

And um...that's basically what I've been saying. My friend, that was getting ragged on because she defines her sexuality as homosexual and is in love with a man right now. What I've been saying is that whatever she defines herself as is her choice. Our friends, who were ragging on her, were telling her she is bi, when that is not what she defines her sexuality as. I've been saying this man is the exception, because their love transcends gender/sex stuff, and what she chooses to identify as is her choice, not anyone else's, and people should just get over that and focus on the fact that she's very happy right now.

That's it.

Let's not make this into more than what it is, now. x3

The way I see it, from the story that Rhi-Rhi has told, her friend is a lesbian that likes A man, singular. I don't think that finding one exception in the opposite gender changes your sexuality. She is what she is but as Rhi-Rhi said, she has found an exception, one man that is different. Let her get on with what she wants, that's what I say.

^ THIS. ^

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. xD Jeebus.

My whole rant could be summed up as: STOP MAKING A BIG DEAL OVER HER SEXUALITY. MAKE A BIG DEAL OVER THE FACT THAT SHE'S HAPPY IN LOVE. <3

Here's the thing though. The first time it happens, it may not change the orientation, but once that's said and done, I believe she's opened the door to something else. Now, she's found she can be attracted to males as well as females.

Regardless of whether or not the initial occurence changes her orientation, it changes her perceptions on her orientation. If it can happen once, why can't it happen again? Or a third time?

If you believe that sexuality is such a fluid thing, then why put labels on it? Why not just call it what it is?

Sexuality.

And the simple fact that you've been arguing this leads me to believe that it's a little bigger deal to you then you're letting on.

Not trying to step on any toes here, just putting in my US $0.02

^^;; I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make.

I'm not putting labels on her sexuality. She is. She is choosing to identify as a lesbian still, which is her choice entirely. It's not anyone else's call to make.

I was annoyed because some mutual friends of ours were giving her a hard time about her new relationship because they were making a big deal over how she is choosing to label herself and telling her she is bi, when she doesn't feel she is. My opinion on the whole matter is they need to back off, stop making a big deal about it, and be freakin' happy for her instead of being all, ZOMG! YOU CAN'T BE A LESBIAN! YOU ARE WITH A MAN.

It doesn't matter to me what she chooses to identify as--that is her choice entirely, and I wish our friends could just accept that it's her choice. And even more than that, I wish they could just be happy for her having found someone she loves and leave the orientation debate out of it.

*points above* It's not. What's a big deal to me is that our friends are making it a big deal, when what they ought to be making a big deal out of is the fact that she's happy and in love.

I love Janto xD But in my defense, I liked them before they got popular. Ianto's my favourite character also, he got much funnier in series two. Owen rocks as well, I was never really bothered about Tosh mind, ahdunno why. Gwen annoys me the most. >.<

I wasn't dissing Jack or anything but saying that.

*moves swiftly onwards*

I definitely worry about political correctness :/ I don't like getting the feeling that people could feel I am insulting them when I'm not. >.<

I sometimes agree with the people who are telling her she must be bi.. Not really in this case, but like, I was watching television and one guy had been with like, a load of males, called himself gay, and then suddenly started dating women and calling himself straight, even though he admitted to still feeling attracted to males.

I wouldn't make a big deal out of it though, I mean, I wouldn't go yelling at him about it or anything. *shrugs* I might ask him about it if I knew him, but methinks it's none of my business as to what sexuality he tells people he is, or anything he says, really.

Annnyway, I just wrote that because otherwise my reply would have looked really pathetic, and mostly focused on Torchwood xD So I figured I'd better say something about the actual topic.

At first, I was rather confused because I take definitions very literal. THEN I realized that, more or less, what the point of the rant, LOL. After I got that idea into my brain, I started to understand why everyone was saying what they were. And I agree- it's simply NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS how your friend chooses to define her sexuality.

I like how the feeling of some people's responses in this thread are very "well if you're straight, you don't know how it feels" Sorry? I didn't know bi/gay/lesbian people who were under oppression made up some whole new emotion that a straight person will never feel. That's ridiculous, we've all been mistreated somewhere down the line and it's NEVER okay.

I don't let my sexuality define who I love. I am straight and I've only ever been with a man, I'm engaged to marry a man, and I'm perfectly happy with the circumstances. My sexuality has nothing to do with being in love. I didn't fall in love with a man because I'm straight. I fell in love with him because he is who he is and I am who I am and it just worked out that way. So I don't think Rhi-Rhi is insulting ANYBODY.

Exactly! x3 Everyone has been mistreated over something at some point in their lives, whether it's over sexuality, religion, ethnicity, nationality, the fact that you have blonde hair or braces...anything! It doesn't make it right whatever the case may be, and if people have basic empathy...then yes, people can still empathize with people even if they haven't experienced the exact same thing. :3

But thank you! xD Once again, you summed my point up. Hahaha, I was annoyed when I wrote that rant so I probably didn't articulate it as well as I should have. ;D

...Though I'm kinda getting the feeling that some people are just reading/responding to the title and not the rant itself. |:

The reason why people stick to preassigned labels is because that's all they understand.

I'm not trying to offend your friends, but sometimes that's all people understand- definitions assigned to words. If someone is a 'lesbian' it must mean that they are a woman that is attracted to women alone because that's what good ol' Webster says, right? Because on a surface level, that's all the word is. A lesbian is a woman that is attracted to women.

Some, if not most, things just aren't that clear cut, though. Most people consider me straight because I'm a female that is attracted almost exclusively to men, but since I don't consider myself one hundred percent female, I can't just say that I'm straight. and some people just don't get it. And that's okay.

I know that you and most likely the friend in question are distressed by the people that insist on 'correcting' her, but some people... just don't get it. And that's that.

Yeah, they don't get it. xD Which I can understand. A lot of my own friends don't get me, and it doesn't bother me, truthfully.

This whole incident wouldn't bug me, either, if it wasn't the way they're going about it. O__o The way they're going about it isn't just, "Oh, I don't get it." If that were the case, I wouldn't be so danged annoyed. xD And I don't think I articulated that in my rant at all (because I was annoyed...ahaha). One is being downright rude about it, and the other is just being...really weird about it, like it's personal or something.

Let's just say the way they've been handling this whole thing hasn't just annoyed me, but a few other friends, too. :\ When I tried talking to one of the guys, for example, to try and help him make sense of it (...because he actually CALLED ME about it, because apparently this is just THAT BIG OF A DEAL--he didn't call me up to be happy for her, but to be all, "wtf?") his responses were so...weird. And just generally rubbed me the wrong way. :\

So I mean I can understand not getting it, definitely. But...gah. I don't see why it's so apparently personal to them. I'm still kinda boggling. xD

It could be that she threw them out of their comfort zone. We only label things because it's easier for us to compartmentalise them in our minds. By transcending the "lesbian" label, even though she still self-identifies that way, your friend has threatened your other friends' perceptions. They may just want her to be bisexual because it's easier for them to process if she is.


...also, I suppose her ability to do that threatens their own labels. Something like that is a cause for self-doubt. Obviously she knows that she's a lesbian, but it might be causing your friends to rethink how they identify, since they don't seem to be able to get their heads around it.

But you see, there are people out there that do take sexuality seriously. In sexuality, there is no one exception. You're either gay or you're not. Just because you love one man means nothing. If you sleep with him or are sexually attracted to them is the difference between being a lesbian and being bisexual.

Calling yourself a lesbian but wanting to screw a guy doesn't make you a lesbian. It makes you bisexual. Loving a man, not screwing him, but attracted to girls make you a lesbian. There is a large difference between sexuality and love. What I get from your whole story is that she's sexually attracted to women, but loves a man. I can say it over and over again, love is different from sexuality.

You can love whoever you want. That is not what I am trying to debate with you. Love is love no matter what sexuality you are. I love my fiancee, but I like women, too. But claiming to be a lesbian but being sexually attracted to a man does not make you a lesbian. Being gay and sexually attracted to a woman does not make you gay.

Sexuality, to me and many others I know, is a big deal. It's a big part of our lives. I love my sexuality and I'm proud to be who I am. But I'm not denying something that I am. If I'm in love with a man and sexually attracted to them, then I am not a lesbian. I am bisexual. There is a difference between love and between sexuality no matter who you are.

And if sexuality isn't a big deal, neither is love. They may be different, but they are still similar. You can't change who you are, but you also can't deny what sexuality you are. If you love someone, then you love them. If you happen to be a lesbian and love a man physically or sexually, then sorry, you are not a lesbian. End of story.

I'm sure it's a big deal to plenty of people. It's not a big deal at all to me, however, though I am proudly pansexual and still madly in love with the woman I was in a relationship with.

What I'm saying, have been saying, and will continue to say, however--is that it is not up to you, or anyone, to label someone for them.

If my friend says she is still a lesbian, y'know what? She is. You, nor anyone else, cannot tell her any differently and you don't have any right to, either. Whatever label she wants to identify as is her decision and no one else's. Why? Because I think she knows herself and her feelings better than anyone else.

If sexuality is a big deal to some people, I'm sure you can understand how important it is for people to decide what it means to them for themselves--and as such, to choose whatever labels they wish to choose, if they even wish to identify as anything. I'm also sure you can understand how annoyed some people would get when told by someone else that what they self-identify as is wrong--as my friend did. :3

End of story.

Being sexually attracted to someone doesn't really mean a whole lot. In porn, many "straight" men are able to have sex with each other- as well as in lesbian porn, where many girls consider themselves straight. So saying "whichever your sexually attracted to".. doesn't quite work out. A woman can have sex with a man all the time (lube!) and enjoy it but she might have *no feelings* whatsoever for him, but loves and loves to have sex with woman, so considers herself a lesbian. Sex is physical; pleasure can come from that easily, so you can like it and want it from any gender.

Let people label themselves, if they want.

Btw, relationship love CANNOT be compared to loving an IPOD, I think.

I hate to break it to you, but your definitions are NOT the end-all-be-all of the subject. And I think other people would know how they identify better than you do.

Being attracted to one man does not turn someone from lesbian to bisexual, unless that person thinks that they are moving more to bisexuality.

Or shall we just decide that almost everyone is bisexual since a lot of people will admit that, even if they are straight as a ruler, that they have been attracted to someone of their own gender at one point in time?

I think Vanity has a point. I would be very thrown off guard if someone decided to come up and randomly informed me that I was a lesbian because I was with another women. As if it's their place to make that call.

Well put. While I do understand that using the literal definitions of the words mean something as I previously stated [hence my official confusion], how I read the thread was that it's beyond using labels. How I read the rant was more of a "why does everyone even NEED to be labeled with their sexuality?"

Which I've never even thought of before. I mean honestly, if I'm not sleeping with you, it's none of my business. If we're not in love, it's none of my business. And if we are doing one of the two, I don't care what your sexuality TECHNICALLY would be. I don't understand why anyone else would care, either.

I didn't know there were damn rules involving sexuality. I failed to get that memo.

A TENDENCY TO DIRECT. Not ALWAYS directing.

The fact that humans are incredibly complex negates that statement. We can't be either yes or no. We are capable of blurring the lines between one thing and another that the only indication there is a line is a faint black smudge.

We give ourselves labels to identify ourselves to others easily. However, we've taken it too far. Many labels are taken as literal. But they're more like job descriptions. You don't only do what your job description says. Mine used to be 'Checkout Operator' but I worked in music occasionally, sometimes in shoes and once in a while in clothing. It identifies me in that I mainly work there, but I'm not restricted to it.

And that's it with labels - we're not supposed to be restricted by them.

I personally think that sexuality matters not even a little bit. I don't care if I'm gay/bi/pan/omni/a sexual. I don't care if you're gay/bi/pan/omni/a sexual. You're attracted to the people (or animals/things) you're attracted to, the end. Why should it matter whether the person you're attracted to happens to be male or female? That's just a physical description of them. It's not who they are. So being attracted to their sex cannot define who you are.

I really have no idea if that made sense. I think it did. The ideas are so clear, but putting words on them is so difficult!

You are restricted by labels and by labeling yourself as something you're not does have an effect on society. You all may think it's not a big deal, but in more then half of the US today, it is. I would love to see you take your case to a lesbian and tell her what is going on. She'll say the exact same thing I am saying or worse, insult your friend for not being real with herself.

I would love to see you do it. Go on.

I'm not the only one in this world that finds sexuality important. And I can compare love to an iPod in an example. Cause that is what it was.

Sadly, the same thing happened to a good friend of mine from grad school and his wife. Both of them considered themselves gay when they happened to meet and fall in love. They've been married for more than 20 years and they have a child who's now an adult. When they first got involved, many of their gay friends ostracized them for falling in love/having sex with a member of the opposite sex. Instead of being happy for the two of the for now having this great realtionship, they acted like these two people were betraying them and their community/orientations. Both of them are still attracted to the same sex, and would never deny that part of themselves. Thankfully, they listened to their own hearts and not their friends nonsense. I'm sorry that your freind is going through this same kind of thing, Rhi-Rhi. Real friends would be supportive no matter what.

For me, love is too rare and precious to look down on it when it happens, even if it takes someon outside the way you've defined them in the past. Love is love, and that's all that matters. I'm married to a man but I am attracted to women as well. As a friend of mine put it, I just don't really care about the plumbing. It's the person that matters.

An individual's sexuality should be important to one person and one person only - them. Not you. Not anyone else. Not society. That is not a difficult thing to understand. It is not your business.

And as stars pointed out - the very definition of the word 'homosexual' disagrees with you. It states that it is simply a tendency. It's not a 100% all or nothing thing.

Best post on the thread. Well said.

Firstly, I'm sorry that's how you feel. But it's your business to allow yourself to be subjected to conform, not mine. Just like it's not my business to tell someone how she is sexually affiliated.

What case would I be taking to a lesbian? The fact that sexually doesn't matter because it's no one else's business? Just because she is a lesbian doesn't mean she's intelligent. Just because she's a lesbian doesn't mean she's socially adept. Just because she's a lesbian doesn't mean she can change my mind. Just because she's lesbian doesn't means its her business if someone else calls them self a lesbian or not.

And if said lesbian gets offended, then her life must be pretty easy. Because if that is the only thing said lesbian has to worry about- how someone defines their sexuality-then she simply has nothing better to worry about.

And I still don't get the whole iPod thing. Sexuality is important- to the person who is defining THEMSELVES. My sexuality and how I define MYSELF should not be important to you. Period.

And I know many lesbians--and gay men--who would disagree with you.

Please to be not acting like you speak for everyone in the GBLT community--because you don't. In fact, my friends, and my, opinions about sexuality are echoed by other people in said GBLT community (just as other people in the GBLT community disagree, which they have a right to, whatever. P: )

If people insult my friend, or anyone, over how they choose to self-identify, that's their problem--and obviously they need a hobby if other peoples' choices offend them that much. :3 It's frankly not really their business, and who are they to tell someone that they're not being real with themselves? Um, excuse me, I think that's for the individual to decide, not some self-righteous fool that thinks they know what's good for everyone else when they ought to be focusing on themselves.

Yep. Hit the nail on the head. <3 Couldn't have said it better.

But yeah, sorry, I still don't think sexuality is a big deal. It isn't to me, and again, I'm proudly pansexual and genderqueer, thankyouverrehmuch. <3 The only people my sexuality should matter to are me and my partner(s). But aside from that? My sexuality is just one facet of who I am--and there are many facets--and while I don't hide it at all, it's just...there.

I frankly don't understand people who let their sexuality be their one defining feature. *shrug*

Okay then. So if I wanna screw a goat, that's fine then. If I'm attracted to little kids, that's just fine, too.

I would love to know what this man that is dating this so-called lesbian thinks. My fiancee agrees with me. She's not a lesbian then. It's not about her being happy. Good for her! It's about the fact that she calls herself something she's not. Would you all like me going around saying I'm something I'm not?

Society dictates a lot of crap in our lives. Any debate whether or not it is based on sexuality and gay rights to abortion to what kind of music you like is based on society. You cannot just deny one aspect because there will be people out that that judge a person based on the choices they make and what they say.

I don't deny that it is not anyone's business if someone loves someone. You can love whomever you want. I will never disagree with that point. What get's me is the fact that your friend calls herself a lesbian when she is obviously not. That bothers me. Why say you're something when you're not?!

Let's simplify this shall we?

I hate soup, I cannot stand the stuff, I don't like the taste, I don't like the texture, I don't like the smell. Right? Ok, so given the option I won't eat soup, I would have whatever other started is on offer. One day I try another type of soup, I quite like that one, it smells different, the texture is smoother, it does not feel like swallowing warm vomit. I will not eat that ONE brand of soup. Does that suddenly make me a soup lover? Given the option would I always now have soup?

Nope, I still hate soup, I just like ONE brand and find that ONE brand acceptable to eat.

I know I am simplifying but it is the only real life example I could personally give.

NB - The Child thing is totally different seeing as there is a law in place regarding that.