Oh dear,

I recently checked out a site because I liked the concept of it and the plot was well written. The site looks pretty good on the whole, I like the look and feel of it and beside a few cartoon style avatar pictures I am pretty impressed, I read the rules and the plot, I like what I see.

My next step? I want to see what some of the characters are like that play there. So I head over to their accepted characters board and read some of the profiles.

To my mind, when you read a character profile you should come away from it knowing about that character. These were SO basic it was unreal. I know a lot of people don't like long applications but some of the descriptions and such were literally 2 lines and half of that talked about his sister rather than him. I want to know a little more about what the character looks like, especially seeing as there is no PB.

The history was two lines long. 2 freaking lines, all it did was tell me where he was born and who his parents were, which was then REPEATED anyway in the next section of the application.

I came away from that application knowing NOTHING important about that character, nothing that would help me visualise an interaction with him. I am sorry, I am not a RP snob but I like to understand the characters I am going to be spending my time writing with.

What really did it for me was the admin response of "Brilliant, accepted" - to me that was "Quick, close the site, get out while you can!" I could not believe it.

Maybe I am being unfair, but ARGHH!

...Two lines?! WHAT?!?
I would flee from that site so fast!

Did the site state anywhere that it was beginner or intermediate? Because that might have been an indicator. If not, then I will say this: In my experience, some people just darn well suck at making profiles. That does not necessarily mean they suck at roleplaying. If I were you, I'd check out the IC posts of that member, just in case. Quality over quantity. Though I do agree that two measly lines about his sister is skimpy.

And you shouldn't flee just because of one person's character, IMHO. Sometimes admins like to give everyone a chance, and I mean everyone. :lol: I'm aware that I am known for being especially lenient when it comes to apps. So perhaps that's just me being too nice. :angry:

There was more than one application that was on the offending list, all done by more than one player too. I did have a good look around.

Edit: Just having re-read what you wrote I am going to say that I disagree. I am afraid that profile making, history writing etc is all part of RP and you can't have one without the other, unless you want threads that are riddled with continuity errors, not that it would matter because there would be no way to check.

Yes, I am all for quality over quantity but I am afraid the site I read had neither. The history was literally: "He was born (place name) he was the son of (name) and (name) he has a sister called (name). That is not quality in my eyes, especially as the next section of the application was:

Mother:
Father:
Siblings:

And yes, I was right to flee. If an Admin is prepared to accept an application with absolute zero effort put into it, I don't want to play there. Simple as.

Err, I rarely finish a character application before actually playing the character. I like RP because I get to discover the character whilst playing them, and they usually come out more realistic than if I tried to rattle off a thousand personality traits that MIGHT suit him, but might get thrown in the dustbin later.

Zero effort in application doesn't reflect effort in RP. Some people don't like creating fatty bios. At my RP, some join and fill out the whole thing, some fill out the required fields (appearance, species, gender... you know, a skeleton bio) and then fill out the rest as they discover their character later.

I'm also firmly opposed to this 'I won't play with a character if I don't already understand them completely from reading their bio' mentality. You don't get a handy biography of all the people you meet before you meet them in real life, and I don't see why RP should differ.

Read their IC threads and focus less on the OOC sections (unless you prefer the sites that devote all their time to games/plot pages and other tools of procrastination rather than actually roleplaying). If their threads are lacking action, depth or plot and everything in the IC section seems hohum, then I wouldn't blame you for turning it down. However, I think that judging based on the character biographies is harsh. Perhaps that's because I run an applicationless game that doesn't even require approval on applications though...

I love shorter applications, especially if I've never played the character before. However, at the same time I think it's important to pack information into the app. Thus, if there are two lines about the personality, they had darn well be about the personality.

That said, even with longer apps I hate it when people diverge off topic.

Character biographies are very important. History is everything that has happend to your character up to the point the game starts, if you create a 23 year old person then there are 23 years woth of events to put in. Obviously you don't need to list everything but certain events in that time WILL shape you as a person. I am 22 at the moment and I can name at least 5 events which have made me the person that I am today. Items like that SHOULD be included.

Also, I run a site that is medieval fantasy based. Sometimes people do get themselves into situations where the only way out is the sword. It happens in medieval games, people call people out and duel and such. Now, take this for example, someone has not done a character biography so we know very litte about the character, they duel someone and sudenly they are the best thing since sliced bread, able to wield a sword to a fantastic degree because they have been trained by god knows who. They didn't put it in their biography because they are still "learning about their character" - is that fair on the other player who then gets injured, mutilated or killed? No. It certainly is not. If they have done a decent biography and history then you can keep a check on the skills and the power levels. If they haven't, you can't.

When George Lucas created Star Wars he created a background history for EVERY character seen on screen. He has files and files an files of material that is not seen in the film, not even mentioned once, because it related to an extra standing three people over from the right in some space depot (I don't know Star Wars names) why did he do that? Because it is about realism.

I am all for discovering parts of your character as you go along but as an author you should know the in's and out's of your characters past. Does this stop them from developing further in the future? Nope, it gives you something to build on. You ask any published author about their characters, JK Rowling is a prime example, and she will tell you how much historical background each of them have. She has files on all of them with extra information in that assist her when she is developing her characters and you could not look at Harry year one and say he has not developed to the way he is at the end of the series.

In my opinion not bothering to do any form of decent application, history and background and using the old "ill do it as I go along" chestnut is LAZY.

I'm going to agree with you. If you've got a character that is 16 years old, get into some past efforts. I don't care about their sister or brother or father. There is usually a section to put that in. I think if you want just a skimpy history, a paragraph is just fine. I'm known for at least 4 paragraphs when it comes to my character. I don't describe their future. I describe their past which is the whole development of the character.

If that site doesn't allow that, then you had every right to run out. I would have to! I would not want to get godmodded on a site I just joined and then get told that I wasn't cause the character can do that. Okay...WHERE DOES IT SAY HE CAN DO THAT?! I don't much care about length. It's all about substance. If there is no substance, I am not going to incorporate myself in your site no matter how nice it looks or how good the plot is.

That is exactly it. When I started my rant it was because I was so surprised that an Admin of a RP site had allowed a two line history to pass, however I full agree that if that history was fantastic and packed full of everything you needed to know (highly unlikely in 2 lines!) then I would not have an issue with that at all.

It was basically the fact that the history was two lines long and told me nothing and the physical description on one of them I read just described him as "handsome" and that was pretty much it and the Admin described it as brilliant or excellent. What is that all about? Where is the effort? What have I learned from reading the profile? Nothing.

I'm pretty sure people who make "skeleton bios" actually have a lot of background detail about their character.

What they don't know is how it all fits together. They have a whole jumble of dislocated facts. But it's hard to make the things that you know in your head into a cohesive background for a bio when you've never touched the character.

Just because the person who wrote the bio didn't include every detail doesn't mean they don't know it.

Personally, I dislike character bios generally. All I need is a basic appearance - hair colour, height, stature, gender, approximate age.

In my opinion, people who are averse to writing character bios simply want an excuse to play characters who are chameleons--who can conform to their environment, please people, etc. I don't give a **** if you want to 'exercise your creativity' by failing to include information you ought to know. I mean, come on. It's not that you're having insights about 'your character' when you go 'OMG HE KNOWS HOW TO PICK LOCKS!' You're acting on your own whim. And that's fine. You can always go back and add information to a profile, even if it's relatively detailed; I just chose, for instance, to make one of my characters an amateur painter, because it fit his personality and was a nice plot point.

But if you don't even lay down a platform--of basic psychology (which is heavily influenced by history, believe me)--you're just being a self-indulgent fool, in my opinion.

Or simply very, VERY psychologically unaware, in which case your character will be shallow enough to fit any profile you'd like anyway, and no one will be able to tell the difference.

It's important to be able to describe things cogently, even things we don't fully understand. I mean, honestly, isn't that what writing is actually all about?



ED: Oh, and it's obviously possible to play a character without writing a bio, but since you know the damn information anyway, that just adds laziness to the stupidity of it.

Considering I've seen a number of applicationless sites that prove all of this wrong, especially Rhi-Rhi's sites, I don't buy a word of any of it. You can have a mature roleplaying with good writing that doesn't have long applications. However, the quality of the admin will attract a like quality of roleplayer. And I know Rhi-Rhi has said a number of times that those who aren't up to their level just sort of drift out of the RP or they work to make themselves catch up.

When I was admin, I disliked seeing two paragraph histories, not alone two sentences. History and past events have an effect on one's psychology and behavior so there had to be at least some event that effected at least one of the personality traits. It could be something as simple as a very heated argument when the character was sixteen, whatever.

Granted, I also tend to hate characters that are complete products of their past, but that is for another rant.

I just joined a site who have a different history set up then I've ever seen and at first I wasn't a fan. They had a section for "defining moments" and then their history tended to be laid out in a list like fashion, organized according to year:

(birth-4)
(4-15)
(16)
(17-21)
(21-current)

Something like that, however the member decided to fill it out. I was iffy about it until I went to fill it out and found it going as smoothly as writing five paragraphs about history. I think the defining moments helped with that as well.

A lack of application will work or not work, but it is entirely dependent on the game type.

If you have a game that has a specific set up, if it's a bit complicated, then, especially in the beginning, an application of sorts is a good idea--or at least some sort of application process that ensures the players get what they're jumping into. If you have a broader setting for a game and infinite amounts of freedom then a character biography basically becomes superflous rather than necessity. It's a useful tool to use if you need it but because the setup doesn't dictate that it's necessary, then it's more plausible to opt in or out.

I have played on sites that require apps and those that don't. I have pet peeves about each.

Sites W/out Applications (or Profiles) are a set up as someone put it for The Chameleon Characters, basically Mary Sues. Yes the site is determined by the admin but I find these sites have the perfect environment to breed Mary Sue like characters. Before I even think about joining a site I plan my character's basics on word. I write a history, personality, at least 3 hobbies they might participate in and 4 or more likes and dislikes they may have. That's not very hard to do.

I then know exactly how my character will interact with other people with similar or dissimilar interests. For instance if he/she met someone that does not enjoy music while my character's hobby is playing the piano there will be a conflict there.

However, a person who wants to "figure out their character as they go" can easily go from liking music because they want to be friends with my character to hating it to be friends with someone else. There is nothing to keep them consistent except their own head. I doubt other members are going to sit there and read ALL of their posts and point out inconsistencies.

I also agree that long tedious applications are horrible and irrelevant to knowing your character. Do I really need to describe their dreams, fears, hopes, and likes to every single detail? Characters, like people, evolve and change as do their dreams and fears, likes and dislikes. I have a tendency to discover things as I play out my character that expand on the basis I set.

One of my characters the other day I discovered had a like for Felix the Cat. I did not have this in their application, but it wasn't truly essential at the time. Another character I had never went to a baseball game. He went and found that he really enjoyed the sport. It was something he learned along with me as a writer. Something like that you can't know about when you are first creating because it is a new experience.

I think a character application and profile should be expanded on. It is the basics. Required things are Personality, Appearance, and History. The history shapes up the character to who they are at that point in time when they enter that particular world. Everything else can grow or shrink as the character lives on evolving.

I agree with the OP that 2 lines of history that are not even about the character would make me suspicious about the site, and not only that, but wary of the admin. I have a tendency to write long histories and that's with skipping over the trite details that do not really matter. The history in my opinion should answer the question of WHY that goes with the personality. Why is the person optimistic? Why do they take a leadership role? And if they have set likes already was it a past experience that brought them to that? Or a hobby? It goes into the psychology a bit of nature vs. nurture. Were we born the way we are today or did our experiences shape us little by little? Without an even slightly developed history on the character (more so one not even about them) I would assume they had always been the way they are and nothing very interesting happened to THEM in particular. That does not make me want to write with that person because I have no evidence that their threads will be any less boring and mundane.

(here ends my really long rant reply)

On my site, I currently play five characters. One of them is a canon character and there is absolutely shedloads I could write on him. I have tried to distil that right down, and I still got a fairly long bio out of it. One of my characters I have been writing (not RPing) for years. He's got quite a long bio, though I think I could add to it. The same with my most recent character.

One of the others was the main POV in a couple of fanfics. I didn't know his background, though I knew some of it. And I have gone back four or five times to add to is bio.

The last one has the shortest bio of the lot, and it is still more than two sentences long. It was before I started to get to know the character, and will get longer as I develop him in play.

I think it's unfair on other players if they can't get some idea of a character, his looks and personality from a biography/character summary. That's the whole point of having them, isn't it?

I don't get people who can post 'all there is to know about a character' in two and a half sentences, half of which are about someone else!

I feel that an application is written for other members as well. Very well put, I had to quote it. As far as looks go, I feel that people depend on play bys too heavily for that -.-

It's because I feel that way that I don't lock character profiles; I think players should be able to update them to show what they've discovered about a character while playing them - hence my third charrie's profile now being rather longer than it was when I started out playing him.

And since avatars aren't all that big - even the biggest of them isn't as big as a proper photo - having a physical description helps enormously. I like to know whether my character has to look up or down to see someone else's face, and whether they've got any scars or other noticeable things.

TBH, I thought that was the whole point of having profiles/applications in the first place! :)

Wow, some strong words coming from people who claim to run screaming in the opposite direction from sites not requiring detailed biographies. How can you know unless you've tried? Personally, I haven't found a single one of these mythical 'chameleon characters' at my site (or any other application-less games I've personally played at). I DO have a very good idea of who my character is and parts of their history before I start playing them, but I'd rather not divulge this to everyone.

BOTH application and application-less games set up opportunities for godmode. While in an applicationless game you claim that a roleplayer could just fly off the handle and make their character a master in combat because it suits them in that thread, in an application game roleplayers use the biography information of others to control how their character feels about another. My character, if described as a cold and heartless manipulator who feigns decency to fool unwitting victims, is suddenly stripped of her deception because everyone 'sees straight through her facade.' Both are irritating, and both reflect an irresponsible roleplayer not an irresponsible roleplay.

Both instances require an admin to step in and say 'back up, that was uncalled for.'

Like Panda said, certain games DO require applications depending on content. I respect that. Mine doesn't, and I'd like the same respect in return. None of this 'you're just lazy' crap. I am far from lazy. I actually POST on my site rather than prancing around the c-box begging my muse to return, which is more than I can say for the majority of RPs or their admins in general.

That's very true. The longest running site on RPGD is applicationless and probably one of the most active, and that's more than most people here could say. And just because a site doesn't have applications doesn't mean it doesn't have rules or the rules aren't enforced.

And to the earlier poster who commented about Mary Sues - those are everywhere. They are not always generally weeded out, and many admins who require super long applications ARE MSs. Being the stuck up bitch is just as much of a type of Mary Sue just as being uber-powerful is.

Not to mention that many sites are just an excuse for a couple people to 'ship and there's not much thought beyond that. Why even bother writing an application for that if you just are going to play out a few threads in your 'ship and then close?

Wow. I have 4 characters right now that I'm playing that had basically no application, and none of them are Mary Sues.

They're not chameleons, either.

No, they aren't wholly developed, but I'm working on it.

For the record, I have had a character for whom I wrote out a nice application, and then the character turned out completely different once played. Had I stuck with the app, I would have gotten bored of him--and probably of the RP he was on. It would have been so much easier--and a better use of my time--if I had been able to write his application as I RPed him.

But I digress.

Either way you look at it, you have problems with accepting characters. And for the record, I have no problem with applicationed RPs because that's just how some people roll. Some people . . . not all. And if you want to have applications on your RP, that's fine with me; it may turn me away if it's too long or tedious, but that's your choice to have the application. What annoys me is when people run around screaming:

"APPLICATIONLESS ROLEPLAYS ARE FOR N00BS AND LOSERS AND MARY SUES AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE!!1!!!SHIFT+ONE!!!"

PS: I don't like applications, at least not mandatory ones. But I could write some of your pants off. I won't because I'd rather you kept your pants on. Have a nice day.

You can edit your application.

It's quite possible.

Most boards allow even extensive edits. I've done it, and while it makes me feel a bit embarrassed (poor planning, and such), ultimately it's an 'eh, what can ya do?' moment. But it's extremely useful to both you as a player (fosters accountability) and to other players on the board to at the LEAST have some semblance of a bio around. (I need it simply as a memory aid!).

I very much agree that applications with a minimum of detail (and I don't actually like mandatorily long ones--those get ridiculous) are a courtesy to other players. It's just that simple. Of course you don't have to put in every detail. I think five sentences on personality suffice, for instance. You don't need a history from birth, though I generally piece it together anyway--for me, it's fun. It's a bit like doing research; it leaves you more confident to play the scenario out.

I'm actually not against applicationless games. I think they work for a few reasons--there's a dynamic on such boards, for instance, such that no one expects biographical information unless they ask for it. You can track people down whom you'd like to RP with by reading other posts they've done. I'm sure you can figure out how a character's personality functions within a few posts, and, while too much mystery in a character irks me, I can see how it could seem realistic.
It isn't my 'thing' at all, though. Why? Well, it's extra work. Instead of going to a condensed biography, I'd have to go and talk to the player for awhile, stalk their threads.... etc., etc. .... and then I might find I didn't want to RP with the person at all, or that our characters were somehow RP-incompatible--call me lazy, for God's sake, but it just seems silly not to have such a little thing as an application or bio.

Now, when it comes to apps that have to be accepted, I hate the ****ing things. I wish my site weren't so complicated--I hate critiquing bios to make sure they fit the world and have potential for plot, I hate it, hate it all (am in fact currently on break from it). I like the way After Graduation works. Automatic acceptance does take off a lot of the pressure, and afterwards it's self-selecting anyway.

I'd also like to point out that the quality of a site and its popularity or longevity are NOT, NOT, NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT! equivalent. People always seem to cling to this fact, and it's incredibly stupid. Boards are good or not good; they should last a decent period of time, suited to the type of board. They can sustain a varied population--suited to the type of board. It's not measurable. Really it isn't.

Sure, maybe applicationless games are popular. So is... well, I'll save the American pop culture rant.

Anyway, these points aside... I'd just like to say that if your board runs off of applications, do them decently (which is really what I was trying to say before). Make sense? If your board doesn't have applications or bios or whatever... well, I'm puzzled as to how one navigates with any confidence, but... hey, tweach sown.

To each his own, that is.

I would like to point out that I am not against applicationless games. I can understand the reasons behind them and I am sure with the right players and the right level of maturity and moderation they can be very successful.

The point I am making is, if there is a site that has an application put some effort into it. Don't do a completely half assed application where the history is two lines long. If you don't want to have to do applications then I am sure there are plenty of boards that will allow you to play without one, go and find one of those. If your an Admin of a board that needs applications don't let two lines pass in the first place and don't call it brilliant, because it is not brilliant for the players that read it, it is just lazy.

Yes and no. Some sites may not require a long application and thus two lines will pass. Brilliant? Well . . . maybe not. But there's nothing wrong with a 2-line personality if that's the site's norm.

Now, if the site required 2 paragraphs and they accepted 2 lines, then I think it has some issues to work out.

I was going to reply once more saying that I believed this was the main point of your rant but then I thought I had talked enough.

As for my previous post I'd like to also state I'm not against applicationless boards and I'm sure there are great ones out there, I'm just taking from the experience and frame of reference that I have from such boards.

So I wittle my longer rant down to this: If a game requires an application, put some effort into it.

Kwentra did the application itself have requirements? Most of the games I've played on have something like "Personality: 3 to 5 sentences please".

December, Esq get out of my head plzkthnx. :lol:

Wow.

Maybe it's just because I generally play a different type of RP than most people here, but not a single one of my main games requires any sort of application. We have character sheets, yes. You decide what your character is good at, not so good at, what powers they have, how strong they are, etc. Most people write up a short background to their character.

But fact of the matter is, 90% of the stuff that's in a character application is going to be completely irrelevant anyway. Only once have I ever played a game that had applications and I'll fully admit - I hated filling the stupid thing out. All of these stupid little nitpicky details that were never going to matter in play. Why are they necessary?

Personally, when creating a character, I come up with a very simple backstory and personality. Everything else gets refined through play, as the character develops. My favorite character, when I created her, started out with nothing more than "She's a former Jedi who fell to the Dark Side and killed her former master. She has a deep hatred of the Jedi Order and would like to see them destroyed. She is incredibly quick to anger, quick to violence, an amazing swordswoman, but doesn't have good control over the Force". Now? She's my most developed character, with pages upon pages of backstory, tons of little personality nuances, and so on. And I'm still finding out new details about her.

TL;DR - just because you prefer something a certain way does not make that the only right way.

Ahh, my mistake, I misunderstood the direction of your rant. ^_^ Though different boards have different standards, I do agree that if you require a detailed biography you shouldn't let everything in regardless of quality. It's kind of unfair to the people who DID put in the extra effort.

I've run applicationed games in the past... I hated them all because spending that much time grading apps seemed rediculous, and I refused to give those standard responses of 'PASS' or 'PHAILURED' because I think it's rude to be so dismissive when people put time into a biography. So I ended up spending more time grading than playing.

LOL, shift+one... off topic but it made me laugh.

I'm just curious, but doesn't the admin have the right to decide what kind of applications they want on their site? If that is the kind of application the admin is looking for, and consistent for the site, then they have a right to do that, I think. It may be that you don't like that format and go somewhere else, but that doesn't mean one way is better than the other.

And personally, I don't think other players 'have' to have applications to look at. People have become dependent on them, think they are 'proper', but it's only psychological. I think that many RPers have become so dependent on the peripherals that they forget that people also need to learn about other characters through roleplaying with them. I also think that if you only RP with people who you feel 'compatible' with, then you're missing out on 90% of the fun of roleplaying.

You don't have to have a bio, and yes, players can be lazy and just not do anything, but we don't have a plot-page or anything, and checking someone else's bio can help a player see how someone else's character might react to something their character is going to say or do.

But using OOC information that the player has to force a character to do something - using OOC info IC - is just wrong.

It depends what sort of site it is and what the admins are like, and ultimately what you like as a player.

Two sentences would NEVER fly at Meliora. The application admins' (myself and one other person) main concerns are making sure that characters are fairly well developed and fit into the game so they can be accepted. Our expectations are clearly stated in the thread containing the application form, so we are rather consistent with incoming apps. It can be a little tedious (we do require that personality sections be quite detailed), but we really only ask for things that I think are essential before someone is able to play a character effectively (another thing that goes along with maintaining a certain quality level). We also try to make suggestions here and there to help members make the best characters that they can. . . mainly because I think that's a kind thing to do for a fellow writer (these suggestions definitely aren't mandatory). I often even make suggestions about how to organize character sheets to make them easier to complete and use as a reference. So, we may expect quite a bit of detail, but we do try our best to make sure that the application process is as painless and helpful as possible.

I understand that developing a character can be tough, and things often change during play. Once sheets are accepted, they are able to be editted in any way as long as members contact an admin after making a significant change. Obviously people discover new things about their character as they begin playing (in almost all cases), so I think it'd be silly to prevent them from providing a helpful reference to other players by keeping false info in their sheets. Asking people to contact an admin is just a way for us to try to prevent people from making alterations that would make their character unrealistic for the game.

I also understand that my methods may not be the most popular. ;) A lot of people prefer to develop their characters in-game, and avoid detailed applications or avoid applications entirely. I just really don't feel comfortable with that, despite the fact that I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing at all. Applicationless games are fine, just not my cup of tea.

I think that's a very good point even though I definitely prefer to have a detailed reference available. I mainly use them when I'm trying to visualize a character, but also to recall what I've learned about a character. . . I even use my own characters' sheets as a clear reminder of what I intended when I created them (Am I straying too far from what's realistic for my character?). Having some uncertainty in a roleplay can be lots of fun, but I do like to have a decent idea about what I'm getting into before I toss my character into a thread with another. Starting a thread, then realizing that the characters really have no reason to interact and nothing to sustain a conversation. . . well that's just not good.

I really do love the details. :innocent:

This is soooo tl;dr but I'm responding to a bunch of different points I've seen pop up in this thread, and not necessarily the opening post. Sooo, here we go!

First off, I disagree that just because you don't have a profile/application for a character, your character will be undefined or a "chameleon."

Though "chameleons" can also be perfectly valid as a character. One girl on one of my games plays a sociopath, and she plays him well. He is a "chameleon" in that he doesn't understand normal emotions and instead mimics the behaviors of other people and modifies his behavior based on how the people he's interacting with are acting. He's awesome; the way the player plays him, it's pretty chilling and even...saddening. xD This also works well for deceptive characters (got one!) and also, some people IRL are chameleons, anyway. It's pretty normal to act differently around different people.

But I digress. I know the type of chameleons you really mean. P:

Back to my original point: you can play a well defined, well rounded, deep character without a profile/application. While some people might not be able to, this doesn't hold true for everyone. I can't write a profile until I've played the character, because I figure them out as I go. Sometimes I don't even know a character's sex until I write them. I once created a character as a girl, then changed the sex mid-way into my opening post and then went back and edited all the gender pronouns and whatnot. P: Worked fine for me; I'm still playing him after roughly two years and he's developing nicely, even though I haven't yet written him a profile. All the "rules" for his character are in my head. *shrug*

And that's how I do it with all my characters. Sometimes I create them around a theme or have an idea about their personality, but that's about it. History? Ahahaha. I've played some characters for years before without having even an inkling about their past. It didn't effect the RP--the character wasn't the type to talk about their history and it wasn't even relevant to the plot for a while. But as I play my characters, I naturally start to think about why they behave the way they do and what past events may have influenced them or lead them to the path they're currently traveling, and thus their history forms as the character forms.

I can't do it any other way. I've tried writing profiles first in the past, and those characters failed epically. xD So I stick to my on-the-fly method because it works for me (just as I'm sure doing the opposite works for others--excellent!), and then, when I have developed the character enough (and aren't feeling lazy) I write out a profile that I add to and edit as I go. It's more for my own reference than anything, and I'll hazard that my character's aren't Mary Sues, nor are they chameleons unless they are intended to be that way, for whatever reason. They're all quite different and complex.

I do think people have gotten too dependent upon profiles and applications, too, as Roswenth said. To be perfectly honest, the only reason I even read peoples' joining forms on my games is to make sure they're not joining something setting-breaking, which is pretty hard to do. :B But I only require a bare minimum of details for the joining form and heck, when I fill out my own joining forms they tend to average like...a measly 60 words, if I'm feeling generous.

Profiles are more detailed and totally optional, and when I write them I go all out. However, I don't always read peoples' profiles until I've played with them because I want to be surprised, but often that isn't even an option because a lot of the people I play with don't yet have profiles up for their characters--and that's awesome by me. I guess I sorta feel like if my character doesn't know the other character, it's not really necessary for me to know about the character, either, upon entering a thread with that character for the first time (well, save for what they put in their posts). I can be just as surprised as my character.

Which is fine by me! When I meet new people IRL, I sure don't have a handy dandy fact sheet about the other person to reference, and I get by just fine. ;D Once I've played with a character for a while, then I'll go read the profile for fun, because I love reading them. I just rarely do it first. I'm not worried about characters being incompatible; some of the funnest threads I've been in have been between characters that are not in the least bit compatible.

If my character would know another character in advance, however, I read the profile (if available), but I also talk to the other player so we can figure out their dynamics, and dynamics are certainly not something I can figure out based off a profile, either. I've had it happen so many times where, based off profiles, it seemed like my character would hate/like another character, but once we did a thread the opposite happened. When I talk to the player, we can at least talk based off scenarios, maybe MSN RP a little to see how they interact to get an idea to base their history off of, etc.

And lastly (homg tl;dr)...yeah, most of my characters don't have profiles. Yeah, I'm lazy and haven't even written out the profiles of characters I've been playing for upwards of seven years. HOWEVER! I don't feel bad about being "lazy" in my profile writing, because I'm sure not lazy in my RPing. ;D Instead of spending a bunch of time fiddling with profiles, I'm actually writing posts and advancing plot. Yay! xD

...Though I like fiddling with profiles, too. I'll admit it, I've gotten kinda obsessed with formatting them and fancying them up. >_> When I write them.

And with all that said...I don't think profiles/applications or anything are a bad thing. At all! I'm not against them (though I won't play on a game that requires applications...I've tried even recently, and I couldn't bloody well fill out the form, so I gave up). I say if something works for you, use it! If you need to write out a profile first, do it. Neither method is wrong, though one method may be wrong for you.