Is it just me, or are people incredibly quick to ban other people these days? No one wants to work anything out anymore. Just scrolling through the topics on this forum, I see that the "solution" to many problems involves banning.

But is this right? You don't want to deal with someone anymore, so you just hit the ban button? What is this--a fascist state? At any rate, why has banning become such an easily acceptable thing? I guess on the forums I started out on, banning was only used for trolls and thieves--never for n00bs because they just disappeared. If you had a disagreement, sure the admin may settle it by saying "Hey, this is how it is. If you don't like it, then you can find somewhere else" but it was never an outright ban.

Does banning make the administrator feel more powerful? Or is it merely a quick solution to an argument the admin knew that he/she was never going to win?

I think it comes from people not wanting to deal with conflict. Some people are ridiculous with the banning, but sometimes its necessary to quell drama. Many times things could be worked out, but its simpler to ban someone.

People always assume the worst. They don't want drama, they don't want to waste their breath arguing/explaining/compromising.

And then again, some people just deserve to get banned. They make a pest out of themselves and its unhealthy to the boards atmosphere.

I know what you mean. Personally, for me, banning is always a last resort. I am a talker, I will talk a problem to death and try and come up with a solution before a ban would ever be considered. I don't mind standing my ground, listening to others opinons and stating my own, but a lot of people don't like to do that.

I think it's got to do with 'over compensating' mods/admins

Which always annoys me

They have no power in real life so they feel the need to exercise and sometimes abuse what power they have on a forum be it from ridiculous rules (For example I was a member of one that required all of the account names be in lower case. Really, who cares?), Very nit-picky rules (Models only), to a gross abuse of discipline. It's annoying.

so i have some experience from this JUST TWO DAYS OLD

i was on a site, and i simply asked a question in the cbox, 'is anyone else having a problem reading the font?'

bham, within five minutes and i was banned from both the cbox and viewing the site

it's pretty pathetic

I don't think what you see here is really a representative sample of how problems are being dealt with in general. The ones that get fixed in house don't get posted. The ones that get posted here are the extremes, the 'I have talked and talked and talked to this person and it's just not working' ones. All of the ones I've read have listed extensive efforts to resolve by other (non-banning) means whatever the issue is. It's only when those other means have been tried and failed that the admin comes and asks 'look, is there anything else I can try?' And the answer at that point is, unfortunately, very often 'no.'

If most of the admins posting here really were power-crazed megalomaniacs taking out their inadequacy issues on poor, innocent little players, they wouldn't bother to post here asking for help -- they would just ban and be done.

FWIW, other than outright spammers, I've never had to ban anyone from my current board. I banned one guest from my previous board for a tirade of profanity-laced threats in the chatbox. In the game I staffed on before that I was actually the voice of moderation in giving a seriously problem player yet another chance (which he blew, but he did get that chance).

Is it just me, or are gross generalizations the new in thing here?

Anyways, on to the subject at hand. I just had an argument of the same nature in another board (not RPing), but generally speaking, no. I'm aware that my experience doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, but VERY few forums I've visited ban on site, or even the first or third infractions. Rather, it seems to be fairly universal to give multiple warnings and eventually work up to either a short cautionary ban, or an eventual solid ban for the worst troublemakers.

December, I can't help but notice that you have an abysmally low opinion of nearly everything you comment on. Is complaining about imaginary problems really all that fun?

I am not paid to do my job. I opt to do it of my own free will. I pour money into it that I only get back in activity. This is a hobby that costs me, so I think in the end, I have a right to say what does or doesn't go on, on my game. How I choose to deal with situations is something I treat carefully. I deliver warnings when people get out of line after they have explained their side. I can't very well play favourites and just ban, ban, ban, but I will get rid of someone if they are a pain in my arse after we've gone through the discussions and warnings.

The thing about running a game is it's lot of responsibility without people slinging shite around. You have people to manage--usually a large number--you have information to give out, material to prepare, applicants to oversea, an entire marketing campaign and you are the person to make sure all of that happens.

So when someone comes along and causes grief, when someone is abusive and mouthy and openly disrespectful of all the work that's been put into the game, then it becomes a stressful environment. Drama is the biggest cause of a game shutting down because people do not moderate the entrance to their games enough. Then you let in players who create problems and upset the game's harmony. You should not have to accept the fact that admining comes hand in hand with stress. If you properly admit people into a game, you are by far less likely to have to ban because you're not afraid to say, 'no thank you' at the starting line.

I've only ever banned one person, I do believe, because we had constant spamming in the cbox for about two weeks. It was offensive stuff too, not just random advert spam.

I'm pretty lenient really, as long as people don't fight or steal on the board, I'm more or less happy. I'm one of the people who has the all lowercase username rule on my board, because I like uniformity, and it's in the rules, and it's in a graphic at the top, and people STILL register in all caps or whatever, it annoys me, because it gives the impression that they're not reading the rules, but I rarely contact people about it. It only takes two minutes to change the name through the ACP, and since it's just a case of changing case ((um..)) people can still log in quite easily without any problems.

My rules are more or less common sense, so I hope that even if people don't read them, they'll follow them, and if they don't.. Well, I'd ask them about it. I'd only ban someone if they refused to listen, even after several noticies/warnings/whatever.

Maybe it's just because an admin/mod doesn't want to take the time to talk it out. If it was something totally offensive and inappropriate then I would understand immediate ban. Otherwise take the time to see why they might be doing what they're doing. I think it all comes down to reading the rules though, if you aren't going to take the time to learn the law of the site, why join?

Grey--yep, I understand that some people just need to be banned. But I'm more talking about people who are like "If they don't agree with you . . . ban them." Or like, in Tankgirl's instance, ban for asking a question. I don't think anyone should have to fear asking a question on a site. :/

Munch--indeed. Imaginary problems are the best. I get into plenty of imaginary riffs with my imaginary friend.

However, I don't think that this is an imaginary problem at all. The fact that people are quick to ban, that is. I'm not talking specifically on RPG-D, either, but just RPs in particular. You can call it imaginary, but it does happen; I just don't think that everyone goes around saying, "hey, I got banned because I posted in the wrong forum" and stuff like that. Though we do hear about it in the rant section every once in awhile.

Panda--I totally understand reserving the right to ban people. It's the banning for ridiculous things that irks me.

Missmoss--I have to agree with you. Let the little things go and move on. (Though a lot of people just register and read the rules later. :p Haha.) I'm an incredibly lenient admin and I don't really care too much as long as people are having fun and there's no pr0n on the board.

I don't know about other admins, but banning certainly doesn't make me feel powerful. I've banned... four people in two years. I didn't make the decisions at all lightly; in fact, I agonised over them for days, and hitting the ban button was really the last resort.

In those two years, though, I've realised that some people just aren't going to get their act together, have no intention whatsoever of following the site rules. One of the people I banned was incredibly active and really eager to roleplay with pretty much anyone who'd join her, but she was also a chronic thief and constantly ignored my staff. At first, we tried being nice but over the course of a year she managed to rack up four official warnings (we had a twelve-step programme back then), over a dozen 'verbal' warnings and close to a hundred moderations. After warning her twice already for plagiarism, copyright infringements and such, I went against my own warning system to outright ban her because by that point, I'd finally realised I was actually injuring my site and losing other members over her behaviour and the fact I'd been unwilling to hit that big red button.

Over two years I've adjusted my warn/ban system. It used to be a case of "two severe mods and ten warnings gets you banned"; after the member I just talked about, I changed it to "three warnings gets you banned". Even then, I've literally just got done banning a very close friend and retired staff member because she spent several days attacking me personally via my site and personal lj.

Bottom line... I don't think banning is a quick solution and it's certainly not something I do lightly. For me, it really takes a lot for someone to tick me off enough to ban them and even then I feel guilty for months afterwards, wondering if I overreacted, if I could have dealt with the situation differently.

Thing is, though, after you spend nearly every day over two years making your site the best you possibly can, I think you've earned the right to say "no gtfo". It's also your responsibility as an admin to get rid of members who are hurting your site and members in whatever way.

I've never banned a person before. And, while I might have wanted to due to -personal- annoyance, there's never been a particular person I even thought of banning. There's a difference between arguing with an admin and being banned and disrupting the board and being banned in my opinion. And the latter out of the two ought to be the only grounds.

A member could bother me all they want. It's when they start to bother multiple members that it becomes a problem. Now, don't get me wrong, if a member is straight up harassing an admin, that's a different story.

I've seen people get banned because they announced on an OOC board that they felt favoritism was going on. This person's post was tactful and didn't name any names, but it was public. I don't feel that's right, personally, to be flat out BANNED. But hey, some people have less tolerance and frankly some admin just like having the power to do so.

The problem with a handful of admins is that they think their word means more than the members word. While I understand upholding a sense of respect for an admin, I don't think one ought to have to agree with everything to do with the bored. Members are what make a site active, after all. But this is slightly off topic.

I don't know if I agree that everyone is on a banning spree, but I have certainly seen a harsher outlook on members. This of course doesn't go for everyone, naturally.

Why do you care? How does it effect you?

Most of the people who are being advised to ban troublesome members come here after they've tried to deal with the problem by themselves for an extended period of time.

It's not that admins are getting a power trip from it. I'd argue that many admins are either too lenient, or too worried about coming across as mean and that's why they have problems that lead to banning in the first place.

I don't think this is about the people here [necessarily] or people who do what is needed. I think its about those who *do* abuse the use of banning; its their right, but sometimes people get ridiculous.

Mind, I think this isn't the majority.

Mac-a-roni's got it. I used the suggestions on RPG-D as an example, but there are other times (once again, such as Tank Girl's story) that make me say "WTF?"

I guess it's hard for me to understand why people push the "ban" button so quickly because I'm a very forgiving admin. (Believe it if you want, but it's true. :p ) Really, I needed a better warning system because the only real rule when it came to warnings/bannings was "you get an immediate ban if you post porn."

I gave out warnings when people should have been banned, and I banned people when others would have long ago decapitated the member, true enough. I know I could have been stricter, but not strict enough to, say, delete someone because they said one thing I didn't agree with.

As far as why do I care? I'm just bringing to light a topic which has long been overlooked. Plus, it was on my mind after seeing some public bannings. (Like public executions. Oh, the excitement.)

Well me , I've never banned any one. On my site you get 3 warnings then your gone but you don't really get a warning unless your really being a ass and won't try and won't try and fix the problem with staff at all. I think in my 6 years of being a Admin I've given around 4 warnings, three being to the same person on different sites lol I like to make my members happy, not kick them off the board.

I don't see the problem with banning people. So what, if you're banned over a stupid thing (even Tank Girl's question)? It's not going to seriously affect your life. If you get banned for a stupid reason then you're probably not going to feel too kindly towards those admins who banned you. Therefore, you're not going to want to talk to them anyway. If you're banned for a serious reason you were making big mistakes and maybe it'll teach you to be more respectful.

That said, I've never banned anyone. I've never had anyone be a problem on any of my games. I would ban people quite happily, I think, if they proved incapable of compromising with me in keeping my rules. It's not a big issue, in my mind. It's like complaining about people swearing. I don't like it when people do it and I hate it when it's directed at me, but I'd be such a loser if I let it bother me for more than a minute.

If we put that perspective on it, Emma, then none of this really matters. Not the post I'm making now, not this thread, not RPG-D, not RPing as a whole. Sure, being banned for any reason isn't life-threatening and no one is going to be declined from school because of it, but that doesn't mean that it's not irritating to see morons with power. (Note: not saying everyone who has banned someone is a moron. Just clarifying there.)

I would definitely say people are quick to ban. My account was deleted at a board after I tried to ask if I could join in a different way-- one that didn't involve a huge application. I was a little annoyed when I had written the post, but it had not been extremely snarky (I can go much, much worse), nor did it attack anyone or their beliefs. I was just annoyed.

So the Admin pretty much said "Everyone else uses long applications, why are you getting angry at us? Everyone else is doing it! Our huge application isn't huge! It's just long! I spelled asinine wrong! And the word 'frankly!'" <-- Paraphrasing

And concluded with "If you're too dense to figure your character out before you start roleplaying, then perhaps the site isn't for you anyway. Have a nice life, and don't come back."

But yeah. No one is willing to listen to reason anymore, it seems. Or at least willing to let the other party pause for a moment and say something with a clear head. No one cares what you think anymore, because they are TEH ADMIN.

But of course, there are PLENTY of cases where people who were banned most certainly deserved it. Multiple counts of harassment, disrespecting the Administrators to a high degree, disrespecting the members, flooding the boards... sometimes people cannot be reasoned with and contribute negatively to the environment on your board.

:lol:

My favorite is when the admin PMs the member and bans them--not realizing that the member can't read the PM because they're banned. (Hasn't happened to me, but it has happened to someone I know.)

As for me, I was once banned after sending an angry--but very polite, mind you--letter to the admin. No reply. Just a ban. I admit, I was not in the best of moods when I wrote the letter and I was a newbie on the site, but I was still very formal and very polite. I was just also very straightfoward.

If you can't talk to the admin, who can you talk to when you have things with the site that you want to address?

Ugh... I ban when necessary, but that's generally loosely translated to "people spamming the shit out of forum/cbox." If someone sends me an angry PM or calls me a douchefag on MSN, I'm not going to go apeshit on them and abuse my power. I tend to lift bans after a few months tops anyways, and if the person does come back, I give them a clean slate so long as they don't go back to their old tricks. I can't even begin to express the surprise I get sometimes when the worst scum come back after a few months and have actually changed - it's rare, but it's happened a few times. I still keep them away from staff as a matter of security just in case, but... damn.

And yeah, PM>ban is the stupidest goddamn idea ever. Writing your PM in the ban message, though, is much more efficient. :) ZB and IF both work well enough with that, and it gets the message across.

I fail to see how that works, Dec. RPing is for fun and is not usually referred to in a negative way. This thread is complaining about people who ban for silly reasons. So not worth it getting upset when an idiot does a stupid thing = not worth RPing? I doubt it.

Every time I see someone say 'I was angry but polite' I go 'yep, of course'. Thinking you're being reasonable when you're angry and actually being reasonable are two very different things that are sometimes so far away from each other they wouldn't meet if they lived forever. There's nothing like actually being calm to help being reasonable.

That said, you'd probably get banned even if you were not angry in the slightest, because you'd be questioning their authority. I've just never seen an angry letter that hasn't shown the anger.

I consider myself a lenient person when it comes to the issue of banning. Based on a severity level of actions committed by another member, I decide if it is A. Ban material, B. Partial Ban material (pm, week ban, cbox ban, etc...), or C. Warn level raise. If they're just one of the minor offenders, or me keep having to use option C on them, then they get five chances before a sixth time they get canned. Otherwise, I'll just temporarily ban them as well as send them some hints how to shape up unless they want to make it permanent. If the offense is deemed ban worthy, then they get canned, because I as well as my members don't wish for bad influences on the board who may just stop all possible member traffic coming to the board.

So, just come up with some kind of system you deem worthy on whether to lightly, mildly, or heavily reprimand someone on a board, and be specific as possible when telling them of their actions, even if it does result in you banning them.

This way, you can't be too quick to ban unless you want to contradict the system that gets set up to deal with troublesome members.

Perhaps an angry but polite letter isn't as good as a calm and polite letter, true. And yes, I still would have been banned even if I was calm. Thus, it's a good thing I didn't waste time waiting until I calmed down in order to write the letter. :p

And yes, this thread is a discussion/complaint about stupid people. Stupid people annoy me, whether they be on the internet or IRL. However, I also wanted to figure out on what basis people ban . . . of course, I guess those who ban based on a sneeze probably wouldn't post in here.

Let's not forget how badly arguments effect forums. The admin isn't always in the wrong because he holds the power or whatever. There are some members who do exist , just to piss other people off. I have members who register and don't even read the rules. It's like they just live by their own rules , without regard to any of the hard work the staff put into the site. Those are the worst kind of people. People like that should just start up their own community, instead of pissing on everyone else's hard work.

Then if you approach them about their disrespectful nature, they simply cause this entire big scene. And my fellow roleplayers don't need to reach this kind of crap. We're better off banning the jerk and moving on with our lives. If this member can't approach us with respect, why should we spend a single moment trying to work things out ? Yes it pisses me off and yes I do feel bad about banning people. But if you spend every ounce of your freedom analyzing every single idiot who joins your community, you'll find your sanity depleted very quickly. Because some people aren't worth the time and energy.