This is a question that has plagued me on every board that I have ever run (which, really, isn't that many, but still.) and, since it has just come up again on my new board, I figured I would come on here and ask all of you what you think.

My situation is this: I roleplay at an upper-intermediate to advanced level, so, naturally, I would like for my site to be of approximately the same level. To me, this means not only being able to write a 4+ paragraph post (the site's general minimum is 3, but most of the people I typically RP with post more), but being able to write it well, and showing a certain level of maturity as well.

I'm not trying to say I expect perfection out of my members. I certainly don't, and I really make a point to be very careful in my evaluation of applications and to only decline an application when I strongly feel that they are not a good fit for the site. I went into this prepared to make exceptions and to compromise, letting in members who may be somewhat below the level I am ideally looking for, but already I have had minor problems with someone looking to join the board.

This is the situation that has brought about my inquiry:

I don't want to cast this girl in a negative light, because I really thought that with a little help, she could have done very well on the site and probably had a good learning experience with us. However, there were some things in her application that I could not accept: sections not meeting the minimum length requirement, several easily caught and corrected grammatical problems, and an incomplete character history, among a few other small things. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think I'm alone in saying that's not the kind of roleplayer one would want to admit to an intermediate/advanced site. Still, the application showed potential, so I made it clear that I did not intend to decline her application, and very politely told her what she needed to do to be accepted, that I would be happy to help her if she needed it, and that once she did so, I would have no problem putting her through. Instead, she left me a borderline rude message in return and left the board - in the long run, I suppose it is best, since she could not take friendly criticism and advice from someone who made it clear that they only wanted to help.

This has caused me to wonder where we, as site administrators, should draw the line between having certain standards to which we would like to uphold our members and being too picky about who we let into our sites. So administrators and members alike, I am wondering what you think: when does having these standards become excessive perfectionism? And how much should admins relax their "ideal" standards to maintain their desired site quality without sacrificing too many potential members like the girl I mentioned above?

As a writer, I think your standards are too high.

As an RPer, I think your standards are way too high.

You need to think about why you're demanding so much in your application, and where you draw the line on a case by case basis.

Start with the minimum length requirement. When you pulled the girl up on this, was it because what she'd written didn't contain enough information about the character, or for someone to reply to if they were RPing with her, or was it just not quality writing? If so, then yes, she needs to write more, or at least write better. If it's just a matter of her writing 99 words when you asked for 150, then I think you're being picky.

Grammatical problems are dependent on the board, so I'm not going to object to that. Besides, most people's grammatical problems are about usage (you're/your, etc), which is a genuine problem. If it's more a matter of style, then you're on shaky ground, since prose kind of derives from poetry.

However, I think rejecting someone for an incomplete character history is the biggest no-no there is. Characters grow while you write. Some of us can't write a character history before we write the character's present. Or we have a very sketchy idea of what the character's history is like. I've had my oldest RPG character for five years, and for the first three, I didn't even know where she'd been born.

Well, I'm a very relaxed admin and it's my opinion that people need to loosen up a bit. :B But that's just my own personal opinion and a lot of people here wouldn't agree with the way I do things, which is fine by me because it works for me and my games. ;D

In my games, I let in everyone. We don't even have an application process. Yet despite this, most people write a lot. Four paragraphs is nothin'. They also write well. This is all despite the fact that I have absolutely no length minimums and no applications (we have a painfully simple joining form and optional profiles people can fill out whenever).

This isn't to say we don't have standards, though. They're written all over the site, and I think the game information (and there's a good deal of reading material ;D) scares away those players who won't be dedicated or willing to put in effort. The community itself it pretty much self-regulating: it has its own natural selection process, you could say. xD If someone really is just that bad (and it's rare), they tend to do one of two things: get better (and I have seen atrocious players turn into stellar writers; heck, I was one of the atrocious ones 12 years ago) or, if they are an utterly hopeless case, vanish when no one plays with them.

Sink or swim.

I don't think word counts and whatnot set standards. Anyone can meet a word minimum with enough filler fluff, but that doesn't make good writing. I say look at what's written, not how much of it is written. Grammatical mistakes...*shrug* everyone makes them here and there. But was the writing good? Was what it was saying good? Get too picky and you may lose out on players who might have been excellent when participating in the actual game. Some people are excellent at actual RP but may not be too great at filling out an application. The reverse is also true.

And what is the point of extensively critiquing an application and pointing out all the little details and little mistakes unless you also plan on critiquing each and every in-game post?

Always remember that this is a game. We're not trying to write the next great American Novel here. :B Pretendy Fun Time Games and all that jazz. :3

So yeah. Basically, my opinion is that admins as a whole just need to relax a little and not stress out so much about quality control. x3 An application process is not going to ensure quality--you can only really find out for sure whether a player is a good fit for a game (OOCly and ICly) when they start posting. The best way to ensure quality, I find, is to create a quality game yourself and make quality posts yourself. Other people will get the hint.

I also must not that this is a general reply, not directed specifically at the OP. x3 It's just a general response to the question posed.

[Also, I'll note that a rude reply is uncalled for and doesn't show much maturity. RPGs are a dime a dozen, so if one doesn't pan out a player can just mosey on over to the next one. No use pitching a fit; that's immature.]

You know, almost the exact same thing happened to me about a week or so ago. The girl was applying for a major canon on the site and there were some things in her application that I questioned but like you, made it more than clear that the application wasn't bad but that it needed work and that I was willing to help, especially because it was a major canon.

So as far as being too picky I'm not going to say that there aren't picky admins out that that just like to lord over people, but I'm not one of them. I've fairly laid back and accepting of new ideas and such, I just want a clear vision of their character before I accept them. I don't think that wanting some more information on them is any sort of insult to the person who's applying. If it is then they are clearly not "mature" enough to rp on a site that might be inhabited by others who are and that in turn can complicate things.

I personally enjoy word minumums in application posts but that's just because I've had sites in the past where people just cannot seem to fill in the proper information, but I also understand that some people can descrive with very few words so if they're close to the word count and I can get a good grip on the character I normally let it slide if my questions have been answerd.

So to answer your question I don't think you're being picky at all, as long as you treat the applicants with respect and let them know that you're here to help I don't see why anyone should be rude and leave ya high and dry.

I'm not going to be rude, but I am going to be blunt.

Your standards are insanely high. You aren't at all picky. Picky are some of the people that exist in the "Requesting RP" section. But on the same token, you're catering to a slim demographic of RPers. Picky are the people that I will tell to "Take a Hike" with no problem.

What you want are people who are practically novel writers, who do not abuse purple prose (which is difficult to do considering the length requirement of your posts).

People need to develop their characters. An incomplete character application isn't good, but some people leave them open-ended so that they can add to it later. Writing is not the only thing that matters - it's also how characters are developed as well. As some people say, a Mary Sue is not just made - but she is played.

Also, a few grammatical problems are to be expected. That comes with the territory. If you want your board to have these superior RPers, then do it by invite only. Otherwise, you'll run a lot of potential members away if your standards are set that incredibly high.

Again, you should probably see the topic on advanced sites. (You'll find my own opinion about self-proclaimed "advanced" sites is nothing short of hostile.) Advanced is not just about writing. It takes into account so much more than that. My personal belief is that there is almost a time requirement for an advanced site. I've seen so many "advanced" sites die within a month. It's good that you're not rude to your members, as some "advanced" admins can be, and while I'm saying that you shouldn't completely drop your standards, you should perhaps relax a bit, or just make your forum "Invitation Only."

Personally, I couldn't disagree more with the majority of opinion here. I don't think your standards are insanely high. High perhaps, but where is the harm in that? You are the one running the site, you set the standards you want to see adhered to. Over at my place I have a three paragraph minimum per post rule also. Three paragraphs is nothing. 100% of my members exceed this on a regular basis. My RP is also open to any level or standard of writer, of any experience.

In my experience having a minimum post rule and a minimum expectation for application serves to push the writer that little bit further. It causes them to delve into their characters more extensively and in the long run, improves their writing. It improved mine. Eleven years ago when I started to RP I was a one-liner master, yet when I encountered a site that had certain expectations I grew as a writer. I certainly don't see the issue there, in fact, I'm thankful for it.

There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. Dialog, for instance. If two writers have engaged their characters in conversation they may struggle to meet the standard minimum. This is understandable, and depending on the circumstance (ie characters are merely speaking, and not participating in combat, etc) I'm sure you can let the standard slide in that regard. However, that is up to you.

As far as application goes if you have an application form that you use on your site then everyone must complete it to the same extent. You can't allow one individual to fire out a quick bio in the space of a few minutes, cry off with the excuse that they will add to it later, and not expect others to do the same thing. Leaving a character's history open for change or addition later in their RP is one thing, but leaving gaps in their appearance, personality or any other required description is another. While I don't insist any new members to my site use any character or application form I do insist that their character is reasonably well thought out and fits within the confines of the genre the site is based in.

As for grammar, that's a fairly common issue. Some people are fussy about it, sure, but in the long run it isn't a huge deal, at least not to me or most of the Admins I know.

In the end, as I said before, it's up to you as the Admin to set whatever standards you like for your RP. As long as they're consistent and everyone understands them I don't see the problem. Constructive criticism and an offer to help badly or rudely received probably means that yes, you could be better off without them.

See, I don't mind your standards. I think everyone who has posted here has a very, please don't kill me people, different sort of RPG. Not that's a bad thing. It's just, I've found there is a line between two different types of RPGs. Ones you can find at forums, such as RC&R, and places such as RPG-D. Usually, forums you find at RC&R have higher standards, where RPG-D is a little more relaxed and tries to improve role playing. The two forums both do well, and I have a great time on both sorts. It's just that they are run by two very different sets of people with two different types of goals in mind.
If you want your site intermediate - advanced, go for it. For I will admit, my standards are exactly like yours. I think that pushing yourself to write more without writing fluff really helps your writing. Lots & lots of months ago (almost a year), I joined my first advanced site. But I felt I needed the challenge! I found that my writing improved immensely. The Admins were very helpful, and gave me very good pointers.

Anyways, I've been to advanced sites where they will bluntly tell someone that they are not up to that forum's standards. Some people who apply to these forums need to be reminded that they are advanced, so I think Admins of advanced sites who turn down people completely should be given some credit. On the other hand, sometimes I feel like advanced forum's Admins need to support their members more. How can someone reach advanced without a little help? Like I said, my first advanced site - they really helped me. They told me that I needed more sentence variety and something else, and ever since, I've really tried to remember that when I rp.
I am a grammar nut sometimes. If someone does small mistakes, I let them pass. But if it is every single sentence (or close to that), then I have to speak up. I think, as much as people try to say it's not, advanced is into quantity rather than quality. I try to incorporate both. While I do believe that something can described in few words, I also believe that other things need to be described fully, not just a bit. Sure, it's role playing, but I think people forget this: you are improving something that will help you for the rest of your life. RPG = Role Play Game, but sometimes, I take role playing seriously. Not in the way with my character, but with my writing. I want to improve. I don't want a one-liner description - I want a paragraph! I would like to become an author someday, and already have plots in my head for them. However, when I used to try to write these stories down, I found that I wasn't describing things enough - my first chapter felt so short! That's why I like advanced, because it pushes you to write more.
^ Ok, I think I started rambling in this post (come on, it's late here!), so: Advanced sites need to help people improve, but remember certain standards need to be upheld. Upholding these certain standards will & can improve one's writing.

For me, I kind of object to this concept that Rping is expected to be a learning experience. It seems strange that you felt you would take her because, you as a site, could 'teach her something.' That she could only join your site if she accepted you all as a teacher, rather than a community with which to enjoy her free time with.

RP isn't school - it isn't even really a high art form. It's fun. A past time. A hobby - we don't get graded and we don't get paid. And, the writing that takes place in RP is unique to RP - becoming a better writer on your site is not going to have a huge impact on anyone's writing elsewhere. Learning to write an rp post will not make one's resume better.

If you can read and understand what they are writing, what does it matter if there are a few typos or grammar mistakes. When I'm writing professionally for work, yes, I take care to write carefully and proofread for mistakes. When I come home at the end of the day to rp, I don't want to stress they way I do about my writing at work. This is about relaxing for me, not stressing more. I understand the need to be a perfectionist - but are all your posts everywhere really free of any grammar or spelling errors? Do you have no passive voice anywhere and other grammar faux pas?

Personally, as an admin, my concern with potential members are simple and straightforward. Is their writing at least clear enough that I can understand what they are saying without too much effort? After all, I enjoy having members for whom English isn't a first language. I do consider my board an 'advanced' board - but that has more to do with the components that are unique to rping, not the actual written prose. It has more to do with self-sufficiency in finding one's own plots and ability to follow unpredictable twists in plots.

In the end, what's the worst that could have happened if you let her join?

I think if people want lessons in professional writing, they should take creative writing/fiction writing/novel writing/etc. courses. >_> Not look to RPGs. So many admins on so-called advanced sites are pretty much just there to toot their own horns. I've seen a number of 'advanced' players write some of the most atrocious, boring stuff I have seen. *shrug*

Sure, you can learn from RPing. I know my own writing drastically improved through RPing. When I started out 12 years ago, I was awful and it was only through playing with people a lot better than me that I grew as a writer--though short story/novel writing/essay writing is very, very different from RPing and that must be noted. While RPing has taught me a lot about plot and characterization, and while it's a great way for me to experiment with writing styles and various concepts, I will never treat it as, well...serious business. xD

I take it seriously to a point. That is to say I put effort into my writing and get really into it. ;D However, I never forget that it's for fun and the point at which it becomes work is the point where I lose interest, which is why I won't join these games with insanely high standards. The game should impress me, not the other way around. :B And if I want my stuff critiqued, I'll look to my writing classes and professors for that.

Or my close RP buddies. :3 As I do now and then, because I trust their judgment.

I wouldn't want some random admin critiquing my stuff. O_o They are not my professors. They are my peers, thankyouverrehmuch.

I've never viewed myself as particularly strict when it comes to applications, but according to a lot of you guys' standards, I guess I am.

My board has a minimum requirement. It's not insane, and most people should have no difficulty meeting it, unless their application process consists of reaching into their big (or not so big) bag of RPG application words and churn out something bland like 'she's got blue eyes, brown hair and is 5'4" tall' or 'she's sweet, smiley, studious, responsible and kind, but sometimes a little cranky'. That doesn't really give me anything. It's a description that could fit millions of characters, and I don't want to read the same application over and over again. The minimum is put in place more to ensure that I don't have to do that than to force people to write several paragraphs of fluff. I'm not militant in enforcing the minimum though: in most cases, I don't even check how many words are there, and I usually don't comment on it if it's not blatantly clear that the player didn't even spend five minutes on the entire application.

As for grammatical errors, I tend to be a bit of a nut. When it comes to my own applications and my own posts. I don't point out the mistakes that have been made in other players applications, unless they render the application completely unreadable, and in my years of RP'ing, I haven't seen many whose spelling and grammar is that abysmal. I'll also ask for clarifications if the meaning of something isn't clear due to odd wording and/or grammatical mistakes.

However, length and grammar are minor criteria to me. I do take them into consideration, but the main thing that earns my players rewrites, is plausibility. I run a realistic game, and I would like all its characters to be just that - realistic. I don't mean to be cruel, but some people don't have any sense of reality whatsoever. I don't expect anyone to be a loony researcher like myself, but I'd like for them to check their facts. One time a girl tried to join a 24 year old female, who was a general in the US army, who ran a jewelery shop on the side, made all the jewelery herself, and in her spare time liked to mentor 'troubled' kids. I mean... please. No way. But of course, the girl got mad at me for pointing out that that's not even remotely possible, and instead of making the edits I requested - because I never deny anyone, I ask them to edit - she left the game with a rather rude message, telling me that I'm stupid and picky.

I don't think your expectations are too high--not on a roleplaying nor an administration level. Remember that a member who is unwilling to make adjustments for your game, despite having presumably reviewed the level of writing of other applications, been asked politely and had the problems pointed out, is unlikely to make any edits for ANY game. These days a lot of players will write an application and be unwilling to bend on what is written down. Once it's written, that's the character. That's it. Either they'll get it accepted with some gramartical fixtures, or they'll walk away and find a game more willing to accept the character as-written.

What you need is room to move.

I don't advise moving into the territory of accepting everyone--that's a good way to ensure board drama--something you want to avoid. Regulating the entrance to your game and the standards within may not be everyone's taste but that doesn't mean it's made of fail. It means you're likely to open yourself up to a small player base but that may work for you, depending on the game structure. I, for example, have played on a game that has always had only around 10 players for almost 9 years now and it's never been invite only. It's workable, it's just dependent on what you want out of your game.

If you want a BIG game, then the easiest way to do that is to basically not have standards in regards to roleplaying itself. For those of you who are hyper-sensitive, that doesn't mean a big game = bad game.

So if you want to soften up your standards with a view to getting more members, then be more flexible on things like amount written--you can achieve a well written post without. Loosen up paragraph limits on your application, and be willing to not get yada about grammar. Ideally, unless an application is hard to read, grammar should never be the focus of an application. The best way to get good characters and good players is to look at ideas, not the face of the application.

I personally don't think you're being too picky at all.. It's your site, so you make up the rules. You gave her a chance to improve her application, and she didn't take it *shrugs* There's millions and millions of roleplay sites out there, people just need to pick the one that's right for them, be it a site that has rules on post count, and grammar and all of that stuff, or if it's a site with rules on nothing.

I personally enjoy both of these sites, as you can see from my signature. One is an advanced site with a post count minimum of 650 words, and the other is a no application site that doesn't have a minimum post count at all, I find both of them to be extremely fun.

I actually like to write novel posts, I feel proud if I can beat my best post count ((currently standing at 4.2k)) because I can see myself improving, I try my best to never write fluff, and this is improvemed because the admin told me about it. I used to tend to throw in loads of jokes into my post, but the admin said that that looked like I was just trying to pad it out to increase my post count, this wasn't the case, I didn't even realise I was doing it, but I stopped, and now people are telling me that I've improved.

Moving from different difficulties has helped me to improve. I started out writing tiny little posts, and then I came across a site with a minimum of 100 words, I found that difficult at the time, but after a month or so, I was writing that quite easily, so I moved to a site with a 300 word minimum, and then 500, and so on. I don't think of roleplaying as a learning experience, really, I don't think of admin as teachers, but whatever you want to think, it does make you improve, and it makes me feel immensely proud to look back and see how much I have improved.

I love the less advanced ones just as much as the advanced ones though, because, although you don't delve into your character as deeply, it's much more fast paced, and you can generally make much more strange things happen.

I just think that admin should be as strict as they want to, it's up to members if they want to register or not, and if they don't.. well, it's not that big of a deal, a forum can be fun even if there's only two active members, I was a lurker on a site before that only had around five, but they were having more fun than a lot of people I've seen on the larger sites. I don't think that having multiple characters when only two people are playing is a bad thing at all, people seem to think of that as a crime lately, as if the players are trying to scam people into thinking the site is more active than it is.. Doesn't anyone think they might like having several characters? And if not, what does it matter if there's only two people if those two people are welcome to roleplay with you? I'd much rather be on a small but welcoming site than on a large cold and unfriendly one..

Anyway, I've kind of rambled totally away from the point, could ramble more.. But I've got to go now xD um.. yeah xx

Your standards are fine, but your application is a little bulky and 'trendy' for my taste. Personality, appearance, history, and other. Give your players more room to ramble about those things instead of listing them.

Maybe I come from an era where listing attributes was uncommon or unpopular, but I admit I am surprised at how frequently they crop up in new games.

This is the point in the life of your RPG at which you need to decide where you'd like to balance your game. You need to find a compromise between maintaining a healthy member base and being too lenient. Too lenient, in my book, is sacrificing the character of your game for the sake of attracting members.

And as often as people stress 'this is a hobby, I am doing this for fun' -- fun is different to different people, and everyone has their own taste. Don't sacrifice your idea of 'fun' on your game. You'll be fine.

Guess I can put my opinion in.

I have to agree with what Ezzelin said. You're going to have to find balance. There's nothing wrong with high standards. But, everybody has a different interpretation on the meaning of high standards. That's something you will need to be careful about. At the same time, you can't be too lenient as well. That is not good either. If you're too lenient, you'll attract all the n00bs (not newbs). Just don't sacrifice your idea of fun. In short, don't sacrifice the core of your RPG.

I will tell you this, quantity of members and quality of members are two completely different things.

Also as Panda said, you need to give your members some more breathing space. That way, your members can improve.

But, I have to add this in.

Reading your first post, I must say this.

There is a huge difference between an advanced writer and an advanced RPer. Just because a person can write a 4-paragraph post does not necessarily mean s/he is a good RPer. And having long posts does not necessarily mean quality. I rather have a short post that gets to the point rather than a long post of pure fluff. Granted, I have seen long posts that are void of pure fluff. I was pretty impressed with such posts.

I also have to agree with Rhi-Rhi about word count not setting standards. I have noticed that a word minimum had caused many players to put in pure fluff.

I have to 50% agree with what TyVen said. TyVen is right on the dot that good RPing requires players to fully delve into their characters. However, I do feel one does not need to crank out 4 paragraphs to delve into one post. For example, if your character is doing a simple reaction or physical action in one post, it just needs to be simple. But, if it warrants extra description and delving, I would say go for it.

To me, an advanced RP is an RP that has advanced concepts. The board I'm rebuilding, I would have to considered "advanced" to an extent because I implemented very advanced concepts. However, I've made readjustments to help prospective new members out. To get a handle of the board, I highly encourage players to delve into their characters.

Again, I'm going to have to use XIN RPing again as an example. One of the reasons XIN RPing itself has a terrible member base is that the staffers on one of the XIN boards were far too lenient. I'll call that board XIN 2. Again, that's something you want to avoid as an admin. You can't be too lenient. Most of the XIN boards share the same member base.

However, just because a person can meet such standards does not mean s/he is a good RPer. One of the main reasons that XIN RPing has gone down the septic tank was because of this one member. The member had done many things that should've warranted a banning from the board. But, the member had the staff members wrapped around his fingers. Granted, the member can write well. I'm not going to dispute that.

I do know he can write a 4+ paragraph post and write it well. But, he's one of the worst RPers ever. Not many people want to RP with him. I wouldn't want to RP with him, either. Having to deal with this member on my own board (I prayed he wouldn't join my board), I have to say that just because a player can meet grammatical standards, it doesn't mean s/he is an advanced RPer. The reason I say he's a terrible RPer is that he lacks to adapt and he fails to delve into his own character. He's pretty much BSed his way through everything and managed to get away with it.

As a consequence, he's constantly backed himself into a corner. He wonders why not many people want to RP with him. And then the people that do RP with him, he'll start blaming them for his RP woes.

Anyway, even though he can write well, he lacks the ability to delve into his character, he lacks the ability to adapt, the ability to work within his limits, and so forth. Except for the writing, the player lacked all the qualities of a good RPer let alone advanced RPer. He expects everything to bend to his will and expects everything to be handed to him. There are more things I can say about the member; but, it wouldn't be relevant to this thread.

The reason I brought him up as an example is that he could meet those standards you set out.

I do have to add that making 4+ posts does not necessarily mean that the player is mature. Again, the one problematic player can write maturely. But, he RPs like an immature n00b.

That is something you must watch out for. The member I just talked about is living proof that a player can meet those standards, yet RP like a total n00b. Plus, he RPs like a Gary-Stu.

For that, I can empathize with catastrophe86. Which is why I have a huge problem with the way XIN 2 was staffed. They stress realism; yet, a lot of the things aren't realistic. I do stress logic, reasoning, and plausibility.

I would have to say that you should stress logic, reasoning, rationale, and plausibility. To me, that is what advanced RPing means. Again, a player can crank out 4+ articles and look professional about it. At the same time, that player wouldn't be able to use logic and plausibility.

The member I had to deal with, he griped about everything being "close-ended" when I stressed logic and plausibility.

On a final note, it takes much more than meeting grammatical standards to be deemed an "advanced RPer."

Players need these qualities:

- The ability to delve into their characters. To me that is very important to the growth and development of an RPer.

- The ability to exercise logic, reasoning, and plausibility. That can be linked to the ability to delve into their characters.

- The ability to bring life to their characters. That requires the first two criteria.

- The ability to adapt. Adaptability is the key to survival. Again, that requires the first two criteria.

Of course RP is for fun. But, these qualities cannot be met in RPing alone.

Yes, I do stress good grammar. However, grammar does develop over time. I had one member whose grammar wasn't all that great. I did have my concerns when she joined my board. But, I was impressed at her improvement. It was her first time RPing, I think. However, I do have to say that her writing improved just by looking at other people's posts. But, they didn't crank 4+ paragraphs.

Having 4+ paragraphs would not hurt. However, I would say only add extra paragraphs when the situation calls for it.

In a nutshell, those qualities are more important than paragraph count. Most importantly, a player could write 4+ paragraphs very well; but, the player could still be a complete n00b.

Sorry, felt like I needed to post again.

I never said rping is a school.
I never said Admins need to be a professor on their board.
I never said that rping isn't for the fun of it.

I see nothing wrong with improving one's writing. When did becoming a better writer turn into a bad thing? When did it become something horrid that members of an RPG, whether it is the staff or the members themselves, tried to help each other improve? I don't care if I'm being told to improve from a beginner or genius - I think criticism helps us grow. Because if any role players decide that they would like to further their passion for rping by writings novels, the readers of these novels will be people who don't write well. You will often find an author asking their readers' opinions, because they want to improve. They want to know what they did wrong, and what they did right.
Writing should be fun, of course. But I still believe there is nothing wrong in improving one's writing. I'm not saying someone said 'Oh, improving one's writing is wrong', but I just want to make my previous point clear.

I see nothing wrong with it, and I never will. *shrug*

(BTW, I do agree that some advanced sites have members who just write 4+ paragraphs of fluff - I've had to rp with these sort of people, and it is torture! I think those sort of people need to be denied as well, because I've found that a lot of those people don't care about quality (and improving), they just think they are great, advanced writers :/)

Going back to the part of the writing the 4+ paragraphs, let alone write them well, it could still be nothing but fluff and/or pure BS. You can automatically tell if the 4+ paragraph post is pure BS if the player fails to exercise logic, reasoning, and plausibility. Fluff is pretty much self-explanatory.

Here's one example on how a well-written 4+ paragraph post could be nothing but pure BS.

On the XIN 2 board, staff stresses reality. However, nothing they do is realistic. I consider XIN 2 to be nothing but a pure hypocrisy. They have a bunch of BS stories and plots that make no sense. No logic, no reasoning, and no plausibility. The one member I talked about in my last post, he's notorious for BSing his way through things. He should have been penalized for many things. However, he had half of the staff members wrapped around his fingers. The other half of the staffers turned a blind-eye towards him. On a side-note, he's done many things that should have warranted a permanent banning.

He somewhat tried to do the same thing on my board. But, we crack down on BS RPing.

Getting to the main part, his character and my friend's character were in a relationship. But, the way he was treating her OOCly, she wanted to get away from him. Especially when he didn't know the meaning of reasoning, logic, and plausibility.

My friend's character had a bad heart. She was born with it. Her character was due for a heart transplant. However, she was ineligible for the heart transplant. His character would donate his heart to her and he would receive a new heart. I could possibly buy that.

But this is where the BS begins.

Apparently, his heart was poisoned for some reason. The poison "killed" him. But, he came "back to life." There was no logical, reasonable, or plausible explanation. Any experienced or "advanced" RPer could see that it was pure BS. Yet, he wanted to give her that heart because it was "better" than the one she had. Apparently, the "poison" left the system.

But, would your allow your character to receive that heart in a transplant? My friend wasn't going to agree to that.

Keep in mind that XIN 2 stresses "reality."

But it left me and a few people wondering:

How did the poison leave the heart?

But, the player failed the realize the lack of plausibility and logic.

- No respectable doctor is going to use that heart. His character is not a registered donor.

- Even if the poison "left" the heart, no respectable doctor is going to use that.

- If a doctor did, the medical license would get revoked. The doctor would end up paying a hefty fine. The doctor would serve a lot of time behind bars.

- My friend's character would have the legal grounds to file a bunch of lawsuits.

I'm getting a wee bit too technical with the last two points. When people question his logic, he'll throw a fit. Unfortunately, the staff will always take his side of things. Again, I do stress that his writing is good. But, his RP is very terrible.

Again, a player can make a well-written 4+ paragraph post and still come off as a total n00b.

While I do stress the importance of improved writing, that alone does not create a good RPer or an "advanced-level" RPer. That's something you have to be careful about.

With the heart-transplant story angle I described, imagine having read to a 4+ paragraph post of that.

Hum.

I don't think you're being particularly harsh, but at the same time -- I didn't see too much wrong with the application. You do have a rather long application, and this comes from me... who also has a decent size profile form.

I only read that particular app, so if these things are already in place - I do apologise.

But it seems to me that what you need isn't a paragraph count, but an actual word count. Paragraphs are very obscure things, and are not (contrary to popular belief) standardised at ten sentences each. If you want 300-400 words, say so.

Also, it might do you well to include a guide on what you would like to see covered in the history. This will also boost the word count of most applications, because they have a clearer idea of what to focus on. Things like how the character got there, why they made that choice and what they're like now. The clearer you make these things before people write he apps, the less chance you have of disappointing people. A guide on not layering on the tragedy might also go down well.

There's nothing wrong with having standards, if your standards and expectations are clear, and so long as they are - you have every right to request your edits as you please. I don't think she reacted approrpriately, and probably is not the sort of member you want on your board - but do be cautious of the way you ask for things, and the reasons people may fall short of your expectations.

I think that you have the right, as admin of the site, to choose what the standards of your site are. I think that is decent, and I agree with you completely, the person in question was obviously not right for the board if she left after some constructive criticism. However, in some cases, especially ones you can see improvement in, maybe you should allow them to begin roleplaying rather than make them improve their application. Just remember that sometimes roleplaying instantly improves grammar and spelling as members may watch and learn from other members.

However, you were well within your rights, and I commend your high standards. Just remember that sometimes your forum may suffer if some roleplayers are not let in (: