So, my little gang of forum admins and I were talking about why forums die. Then we started talking about lack of incoming RPers. Then we started talking about how there really aren't as many RPers as there used to be (in general, as a whole).

Then, I mentioned how basically n00bs are forced to go underground, due to the crucifixions that they get on a pretty large chunk---if not most---of forums nowadays. And, well, if they don't go underground, they're forced into playing WoW or writing horrible fanfictions (both of which we don't need more of xP).

So anyway, what about a forum that is open to all forms of RP and all forms of RP levels with 0 expectations?

I'd basically set up a few categories of RP genres and say "Do whatever. Have fun."

My expectations for it are rather low, since I'm not going to be putting much effort into it, and am expecting [hoping] n00bs will latch onto it like no tomorrow.

So yeah, what do you think? Crazy/dumb idea? I dunno if it has been done before (at least on purpose), but I suppose you all will tell me that.

Well, I agree the world could do with more forums aimed toward 'do your best, don't worry about expectations,' with the idea that the people on them would wind up improving naturally... but you'll still need to do a lot of work.

In fact, I'm definitely not magnanimous enough to run a forum like that myself, not to mention I'm far too mean. >.>

The only issue I have with your setup? 'Here are forums, do whatever you want.' It might be nice to have a little structure. Set up optional character sheets people can fill out as they go along. Set up fun character-building activities, questionnaires, stuff like that. The main problem newbies to RP have, I think, is character creation--hell, I made some atrocious Mary Sues when I was beginning. If you give them a place to work on their characters, and absolutely no pressure (all optional), it might work well...

... still, I do suggest that you put at least a few resources into place. Know what I mean?

The thing I think beginning RPers really like--thinking back to when I ventured for about two weeks into the world of RP when I was 14/15--is interesting IC games. Hell, I still like those. They create a relaxed atmosphere and push people at the same time.

As for the RP itself, I would probably set up some locations, so the RP doesn't get too confusing, or settle on, you know, a genre: regular small-town, city, Harry Potter, what have you. Something that's common enough knowledge that they don't have to be familiar with a huge specific fandom and something that's immediately understandable, so they don't have to read pages and pages of info.

Are you saying you'd want to make several possible genres/locations within one forum? That's not a bad idea at all, but it would take some organization, and I've always found boards like that a little bit of a turnoff, because they get confusing. Still, it might be fun for beginners who aren't sure what they like yet.

I think this is a great idea, but again, be aware that it'll take just as much work and more than running a so-called 'advanced, selective' board. I wish I had the fortitude to do something like this, but sadly, I don't. Best of luck with it.

That's how Magistia is. We have no post length requirements...hell I don't even require character sheets. My rule with posts is "post as much as you feel is necessary" We're also pretty lenient when it comes to strange ideas. I take the concept of Free Form and run with it. Some of us like several paragraphs. Some of us give one liners. We've been going for almost 8 years this way.

I have to say, the rp attitude in places like this is somewhat elitist and can be very intimidating to new role players.

I've had very similar talks like this before. As I explained, this is why a majority of many RPBs based off of XIN end up dying out. I am still rebuilding my board. Plus I'm definitely taking your advice and not marketing it to many of the older XIN RPers. What you told me was something I should've been doing at the very start.

A forum open to all forms of RP? It is doable. But it would be difficult to maintain and so forth. I do have to agree with what SmathNa says. Something that like will take a lot of work. Plus, you'll need to have thorough knowledge of combat RPing, social RPing, various genres of RPing, and so forth. SmathNa is also right on the money on structure. You're going to need plenty of structure for this to work.

It is good for beginners to help them build up their experience. But be careful, it can get extremely confusing for players.

For n00bs, I have two different terms: "newbs" and "n00bs." The newbs are willing to learn and improve. On the other hand, n00bs aren't as willing because they're too confident in their abilities. When things don't go their way, they'll throw fits and tantrums.

What you want to do is to turn n00bs into newbs and newbs into excellent RPers.

Like this:

n00b > newb > excellent RPer.

With that, you're going to have to provide many RP tools possible. When I joined "Alphabet City," I found resources that XIN RPing in general really needs. I don't to sound mean, but the honest truth is that most XIN RPers are retarded. I mean "de de de" retarded like on "Mind of Mencia."

There is this one section on AC that talks about building your characters. It was out from a section of a book called "The Writer's Digest of Novel Writing." Luckily, I do have a copy of that book. Plus, I have another book on story writing and a book on screen writing. My screen writing book is an invaluable resource because I do treat my board as if I was writing up a film. At the same time, RPing is similar to a player chronicling the lives of their characters.

Anyway, your idea does give an opportunity to build players up. Keep in mind, it takes a lot of patience to build up RPers. Not everybody can do it. You'll need several things: patience, the capacity to teach, and plenty of teaching aides to help. Most importantly, you have to work hard to make the forum a very peaceful environment.

If the environment is hostile, the newbs will leave. Your intentions are good. Keep in mind that there is a high chance that staff will still have migraines and so forth.

I love the idea, but agree that it would take a TON of work. I've wanted to start something like this for a while now, because I have extremely fond memories about the first site that I was on and it was a learning site. I would be willing to help you out if you do decide to start it. I have a few recomendations, because I have been putting some thought into it.

It is doable though... in my humble opinion

Two problems: a n00b is not someone new to something. As xing said, that's a newb. A n00b is a total idiot who respects no one, puts no effort into anything and tries to ruin anything they can. The second is that WoW RPing is great :p It's not a bad form of RPing at all, it's just different. There's not really much emphasis on writing well, but there's a great emphasis on co-operation, which is a fantastic thing.

I personally think that newbs should jump into a more structured and disciplined situation. I first joined a very, very structured RP (they only accepted applications twice a year, you had to join classes and participate etc) and it was fantastic. By also being really helpful, I got into things and my RPing ability went from nil to pretty good in a very short space of time. I knew what was expected of me (RPing classes etc) but they didn't really have rules on how much you wrote or anything, so it was very free within a rigid structure.

I think it's very commendable that you're wanting to do this, but don't think that newbies just need a free-for-all. While it can work that way, RPers are like children, in my opinion. Start with more discipline and ease up as they mature.

Right, n00bs and newbs are different. Emma defined the meaning of a n00b perfectly. N00bs are players that are total idiots. They neither respect anybody nor anything. They try to ruin people's RP experiences and anything else that they can. When you take action, they complain that you're hammering down on them. They'll do whatever it takes to make look like the villain. Also n00bs lack responsibility and accountability. They don't take responsibility for their own actions. Instead, n00bs will blame something or somebody else for their "woes."

That was the downfall of XIN RPing itself, too many n00bs. They ruin the experiences of newbs. The better RPers ended up leaving XIN RPing because of the n00bs. There is this one n00b who is at the root of most of the problems of XIN RPing. Granted, this person was RPing on XIN for many years. After all that time, he still comes off as a n00b. I've had the least amount of experience RPing on XIN than he does. But, I didn't come off as a n00b. The one n00b is like the lord of all n00bs. Like Emma also says, n00bs put little to no effort into anything. They pretty much limit themselves and they blame it on other people.

I do have an interesting story about that one n00b. But, I'll save that for another time.

I also have to agree with what Emma said about newbs needing to be placed in structured and disciplined situations. Another major thing about n00bs is that they lack discipline and self-control. Then you have n00bs that are just so full of themselves. They don't want to learn or adapt because they think they know it all.

But placing newbs in disciplined and structured situations will build them up and help them as RPers. Newbs will learn how to learn how to RP in such situations. N00bs will BS their way through situations.

For the free-for-all thing?

Save that until the RPers are more disciplined and experienced. There are two things that make up good RPers: knowledge and creativity.

Your RP ability is as good as what and how much you know. But that does not necessarily mean that your RP ability is good. The trick is to learn how to apply such knowledge in RPing. Knowledge does not equal power as my friend/business associate had told me. Application of knowledge is power.

Your RP ability is also as good as your creativity. However, creativity can flourish if players can work within their limits. As the players mature, you lift their limits. This is why I agree with what Emma said in placing newbs in structured and disciplined situations first. She's also right. They are like children. The RPers are the children and you are the teacher.

Free-for-all type RPBs are like democracies. My American History professor told me this thing. In order for a democracy to work, the people need to be educated. Before you have a free-for-all, you have to educate the RPers. Under structured and disciplined situations, you can educate them.

Just making a free-for-all at the start is pretty much the same as giving someone a million dollars. Not many will initially know what to do when immediately given a million dollars. For the most part, those situations don't turn out well. I would compare RP freedom to giving a million dollars.

If not educated well or enough, newbs wouldn't know what to do with such freedoms. In a worst case scenario, they could become n00bs.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but what is XIN? Haha, I must sound like a newb (not n00b).

Haha don’t worry beta pleated sheet, I was wondering the same thing.

I will say that most of the sites I am on, I have accommodated having members who weren’t the best, maybe some might even consider them n00bs. But they weren’t, they just didn’t understand. And in one case the girl had a learning disability and you could see that she was at least trying. Her spelling was always awful and sometimes she tried to hard that her post were forced and unnatural. But she couldn’t find a site to take her, and I didn’t see it being fair that she couldn’t have a chance to post.

Anyway, just a thought.

XIN is an 18-episode flash animated series created by these two guys named Steven Lim and Max Mao. You can catch XIN on either Newgrounds or on their website known as Lifepoint1.

If you watch the series all the way through, there is nothing but fighting from episodes 1-17. It's only on the last episode in which the plot and storyline is actually explained. From a storytelling standpoint, it's not good to be waiting until the last episode to be explaining everything. They should have explained the story and the plot from the start.

This is where the problems with n00bs dominating XIN RPing comes in. There are two main XIN boards, the boards were created while Steve and Max were still cranking out the flash episodes. XIN itself doesn't really have much to go on. In turn, this is why XIN RPing in general is filled with n00bs which leads to the death of many XIN boards.

Unfortunately, most XIN RPers have watched too much Naruto. Personally, I don't have much of a problem with Naruto. But most of the RPers in XIN have watched it way too much.

**Shudders**

With what .Ra said, while there are RPers that are not necessarily the best, I still wouldn't classify them as n00bs. Even if they still don't understand, they still have potential. It just takes a bit more time and patience. Most importantly, at least they're still respecting the rules, the board, and the other players.

For the girl with the learning disability, I wouldn't classify her as a n00b. This is why I stress that the environment of the RP be very peaceful. Because nothing really is forced and so forth. Me, I would encourage her to keep on trying. Also, I would encourage her to try to relax and take her time. This is why I also try to provide as many RP tools available. Because it would help a player like her out. I do feel that over time, she could be a very good RPer. In helping such players out, one needs a lot of patience and compassion.

It's similar to having players that join that do not speak English as their first language. Give them time and patience, they'll improve.

Again as Emma said, n00bs are players that after a long time still do not have respect for other people. For the girl with the learning disability, a straight up n00b would constantly try to crucify her and make her RP experience miserable.

This is why I'm carefully reconstructing my XIN board. I do feel I'd be able to accommodate a player like her. I'd happily take her in.

However, my main concern would be the n00bs exploiting her learning disability for their own self-gain. There's a certain problematic n00b, who I already talked about in a previous post. That n00b would try to brainwash her. Plus he would try to force the girl's character into all sorts of situations.

PhoenixLily, I'll be sure to get into contact with you then. ^^

I knew the difference between newb and n00b, but I was thinking marketing wise that it'd make more sense to use the term n00b, because that is a much more...'broad' term?

Heck, nowadays people use the term 'newb' to define any RPer that is new to a specific forum, which isn't quite what I am going for.

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But yeah, I see how it could be hard, and my patience is rather high. (I secretly plan to get rich and use the money to buy an orphanage, so I'd hope I'd have saint-like patience. xD)

Ideally, though, is that it'd become a COMMUNITY thing. It would not be a thing where the staff are looming over the shoulders of the members, forcing them to use proper grammar and stuff.

Ideally, newbs/noobs and whatever-you-call-us would become friends. And, through that friendship, will grow together. "Hey, man, I noticed that your last post was 22 words. On your next post, I challenge you to shoot for 40!" That type of thing. Where everyone benefits, not just the n00bs, but us 'decent RPers' too. I've met plenty of 10 year old RPers that---man, oh, man---they can't spell worth crap, but their imagination is sharper than us 'decent RPers'.

See. That is my vision.

I have met very young RPers between the ages of 11-12 with very sharp imagination. Even though they can't spell worth of crap in the beginning, their grammar will get better over time. But, I understand what you're saying and getting at. I would say, go for it. It's something worth doing.

My advice is keep them away from the n00bs.

Perhaps it's more of a gamer community that n00b has such a bad connotation - because (being a gamer) if I saw that your game was for n00bs I wouldn't even click the link. It's got such a connotation for me of n00b = most frustrating people in the world that I'd not go towards such a site with a squillion foot stick.

But. That might just be from a gamer's perspective.

I don't know if you're addressing the example I made of the first site I joined, but I see structure and control as different things. Being structured is having signs around making sure that no one gets lost, that there's always a shoulder to lean on when necessary and that there's always answers to questions - as well as challenges to extend like you mentioned. Being controlling is not allowing people to follow guidance under their own power, but putting people on a moving pathway with massive fences on either sides so that they've got no choice at all but to do what they're told.

That analogy was fun. Don't think it was worth anything, but it was fun.

Since we at RPG-D aim to be signposts and helpful shoulders rather than moving pathways and fences, you don't have to listen to what we're saying. I think you should do what will work for you in terms of how much effort you can put in, how much patience you have and what you think is the right way to be approaching it ^_^

In Finland we have a couple of RP's little bit like this. There is too rules, but if you do wrong, you won't be punishment about that (or not so hardly, but you will get a friendly notice). I think that is great, cause in noob-friendly rp's you don't have to be scared if you do something wrong. Everyone has started roleplaying once, and done mistakes. We should understand new players and let them practise the rules by playing and maybe doing something wrong. Best way to learn is to make mistakes, is it?

Many roleplayer likes to play in these noob-friendly rp's, even thought they are really good players and know all the rules already. Playing in this kind of rp's isn't too serious and it's good.

Of course if players do something wrong, somebody should advice them to do right. But people should be really nice and understanding towards new players. Nobody is perfect and everyone has once been new.

And what comes to the difference of n00bs and new players, well. Usually n00bs are new players after all.