I have a few questions about this. I know generally what it is, but more specifically, when people request a "slash RPG," are they requesting a board where they can have male/male or female/female relationships or are they requesting a board where they can RP said sex scenes? Because I would think that you wouldn't have to request a board just to have a character who has a partner of the same gender in this day and age.

Does this even make sense?

They're requesting one where they can RP the relationships (and sometimes the sex). While most games that I know of allow all orientations, there are games out there devoted 100% to same sex pairings, male, female, or both. So they're probably asking for one of those.

Ohh okay, thanks.

Now here's another question. It would be "not PC" to not allow a gay couple on a generally-straight board. But would a "slash" RP be rude if they didn't allow a straight couple?

Probably. xD I'm pretty sure if a game were to say "straight characters only" they would get hell for it (actually, I've seen it before), but it's proven perfectly acceptable to say "homosexual characters only", which I find strange myself. :\

And that's speaking as someone who isn't at all straight. :B

I know I wouldn't play on a game that accepted only straight characters--but I also wouldn't play on a game that accepted only homosexual ones, either. Not just because I like variety and find it odd, but also because I find games like that only care about romance plots and, hopeless romantic though I am, I find that terribly boring. x3

Not even if the time period was such that it would be incredibly uncommon, uncommon meaning not gonna happen? (just curious)

Well, a while back, I played a lesbian in a medieval game. She was one of my favorite characters of all time. Just because it's extremely unaccepted by the society doesn't mean that gay people didn't exist. They just either had to live in denial or secrecy or both. The other characters don't have to accept it, but as long as the players are fine, I'm fine.

I would never play on a board that outright denied non-straight characters. It would make me wonder about how the admins felt about non-straight people, and that would probably make me unconfortable.

Sorry, I know that question wasn't directed at me, but I thought my two cents were worth adding.

Not even then. x3

There have always been homosexual/bisexual people. I can't think of a time when they wouldn't exist. Just because it's uncommon doesn't mean it's not going to happen--you just have to take the consequences of the period into consideration and play the character accordingly. A homosexual character in Victorian England, for example, would not be open about it unless they were nuts because if they were, well...that was punishable by death back then.

So if I wanted to play an openly homosexual character in a game set in that period, I'd have to be prepared for my character to face some serious consequences.

Or I could just take the realistic route and play the character as very much in the closet for fear of death. ;D Which would be hella fun.

I generally just leave it alone and let people choose whatever, but I would put a limit on it if it's the middle ages and suddenly every character is gay. -_-'

I agree. Being gay isn't some new twentieth century trend. It's something that's existed since humans began. (before even, perhaps, if we expand our little minds!)

Being historically accurate and not allowing gays is not a legitimate excuse in my eyes. Yes, homosexuals were punished back then, but so were murderers and unwed mothers. Yet we still get plenty of all three in historical books, movies, and RPGs. Plus much more. People weren't THAT different from how they are now back in the day. Not in how they felt, or who they felt things for.

I think... yes and no. I can see it both ways. On the one hand, slash boards are "niche". I don't have as much issue with players who enjoy niches that, occasionally, want a board where they can just play out that niche in a comfortable environment. Many people who play slash don't always feel so comfortable on boards that are more catered to straight couples, or they just want to take a break from that and go to a board where they may actually have options for romantic relationships (Yes, I think, sometimes, wanting to join a board on the reason you crave something romantic is valid, though I don't think it should be your only reason for being on a board).

On the other side... I don't have issue with some straight characters being on slash boards, as I think the drama and variety it brings is nice, and variety is good on all boards.

XD Pirates are so gay even they know it.

I think my big brother once told me that pirates that were found out to be gay (or drunk while on board) were killed by the rest of the crew. I'm not sure if it's the truth, since I don't know his sources, but was the explanation something like that?

I've always understood slash to be a homosexual relationship using canon characters from an established fandom who aren't that way inclined in the original story.

So you have Harry Potter slash: Harry/Draco, Snape/Lupin, Ginny/Luna etc. Or Lord of the Rings slash: Sam/Frodo, Gandalf/Sauron

Otherwise, you've just got a homosexual character. That's not slash.

I believe the term originated from the use of the / symbol to denote relationships in fanfiction (Harry/Draco). I also believe it was originally only used for male/male relationships. But the term has, obviously, evolved. Now the term is applicable as an umbrella term for a homosexual relationship in many places, not just fanfiction. Many places, including roleplay between original characters.

No. And generally, pirates weren't above rape. Bringing a woman on board a ship was blasphemous and SUPER unlucky, so. . . when you're at sea for months and months on end, there's bound to be some sexual misconduct with whatever/whoever is nearest. It wasn't about being gay as much as it was about the physical crime of rape/committing an offense against one's crew.

The admin's rationale was really stupid nonetheless and I don't feel like reiterating it.

Umm, it's still slash. Fanfiction was the origin, but it's evolved and is now an easier, more euphemistic way of saying Here Be Gay Guys! (Or Lesbians, but you can use femslash for that.)

EDITS~ Oh wait, SpazzyMal covered this. My bad.

I don't think any admin would have an issue with accepting homosexual characters.How could they? it would be discriminatory. In many modern rpg, the more realistic the characters the better. There are so many individuals out there in the real world, it is natural that they'd be found in the RPG world too. (I'm rambling....I'll try and get to the point).

I have placed a temporary ban on male homosexual character on my Harry Potter forum presently, for one simple reason. Quite a lot were joining along with female 7th year ocs and slytherin girls (I temporarily banned them too! lol). I felt I needed to see more balance in a co-ed boarding school than just young gay or confused males. I also wanted to make sure the characters were interacting with more than just potential love interests in all cases. Not being controlling, just that it looks boring when all the threads are the same people. But I'll lift the ban soon cos a lot more people have joined. What is interesting is that we only have one lesbian. I can't make the judgement that it is only that straight women are playing the gay males (though that is true in two cases, not all).

^ Interesting thing I've noticed: Usually, in general real life/high school boards, there are usually a lot more gay males than there are lesbians (like, 10 to 1 ratio). Yet, in general LGBT RPs, there are more lesbians. Usually not a big of a ratio, but it's weird. Maybe because in my experience, the general LGBT sites attract more of a mature crowd, whereas played guys "slashed" is often considered more of a trendy thing? IDK.

/off-topic

Because highschool RPs attract a highschool crowd. So you get the girls who play boy characters, to make up the gender gap, and then their character hooks up with another guy because they, themselves, fancy that character.

PS, femslash is a stupid discriminatory word. Unless you're a guy who gets turned on by reading about girls going at it because you're convinced that they're not really satisfied by each other and they just need to meet you to realize that they were wrong about being lesbians all along. Because, you know, that's totally realistic.

Or, you know, they could just have a gay character and be playing them as such. I know the scenario you describe can and does happen, but making such a profound generalization is rather presumptuous, to be honest.

P.S. I know plenty of lesbians who use the term femslash. So please get off your perpetual soapbox this one time.

Femslash only implies it's slash, with both characters being female instead of male. I don't really understand where you're going with that. I'm sure it's happened in some fanfiction before, but that is by no means all that happens in femslash. Or in femslash roleplays, for that matter. Nor are all people who read femslash males who like watching girls "go at it". Frankly, I find that assumption to be insulting.

EDIT: Carbie got it in before me.

.... *blinks*....

Aaaaand this is why I think colleges should ditch the Women's and Gender Studies major. Silly arguments!

Boards are allowed to discriminate however they like. Admin choice.

If you find a board with a stupid admin who doesn't believe, for instance, anyone was gay before the year 1950, or an admin who won't allow gay characters, lesbians, or whatever the heck you want, don't join. Find another board.

In my experience, too, the better the board and the saner and more reasonable the admin, the more likely it is to have a naturally even balance of all sorts of characters: straight males, straight females, gay males, gay females, etc, etc.

There's a simple reason why I don't like 'slash' boards that explicitly label themselves as such: they're often all about the romance. That attracts silly people, who create silly imbalances, and the cycle continues...

Not in all cases. Just in some. I'm sure there are great slash boards out there. Boards that resemble the Lower East Side of Manhattan. <3 (I grew up there, hence the love). Boards that have actual plots. And lesbians. I love lesbians. I'm a woman, so the interest isn't exactly prurient. I just think it's cool.

Like every other trendy high school board isn't already all about romance? Sometimes people just like to put their characters in environments where they actually have a chance to develop a romance .__.;

Ha, yeah, and then you develop imbalances. Almost without exception, those 'trendy boarding schools' you mention seem to have FAR more female characters than male. Don't know why. Women like romance more? Maybe. Who knows. Maybe men just have better things to do. ;)

Joke. Sort of.

But I don't join those sites, either (schools, trendy or otherwise), because teenagers are just not my thing any longer. Romance is fun, but it's just a part of life. Scheming to destroy the world is more fun. And maiming. Maiming is fun.

I'm going to sleep. I'm getting incoherent (er). Cheerio!

I'm going to have to agree with what SmathNa said. It does imply the board is all about romance and I personally find that incredibly annoying...especially the fact that 90% of gay male characters are played by women...and even then the guy is usually so girly (Not always but usually) that I'm seriously not seeing the difference between that and a girl.

Of course I got annoyed when a girl told me I should get into slash rp because it's 'more creative' which I'm failing to see how that works.

Besides, another issue (that has already been mentioned) with Slash rp is you'll very rarely find a community without any heterosexual people at all. Yes, it works both ways.

I'm not a fan of slash either, because frankly it's usually played out very poorly. However, I am fascinated by identity and all that gets tied in very closely with sexuality. I have a bi boy I play a lot who's currently with a woman. He's generally a very masculine man. I make it a point that he is not "girly," even when he's with another man (as he was when I created him). Being male, yes, a lot of what he does revolves around a certain part of his anatomy. But it does get boring when that's all that there is. As my mother told me once: "Look and see the percentage of your body that is made up of genetalia. That is the percentage of your life that should be made up of sex." I'd suggest that the same should be true of writing ;)

Brilliant. <3

There's always going to be those thick headed admins who discriminate both ways. I personally do care either way, though I can understand putting a ban on gay/bi/confused characters if your board is being overrun with them. I can also understand putting limitations on them for historical games. Not number limits, but boundries on what they can do. You can't have a character being flamboyantly out there and open about his sexuality if the setting is Victorian England or Medieval France or something, if only because gays/lesbians/ what have you were viewed as 'wrong' and 'sick'. They were likely to get beaten, burned, stoned, generally abused because of it. Which is why they went underground with it. Doesn't mean that it was right, but that was the opinion and attitude at the time.

I don't care how many lesbians use the word femslash. That doesn't stop it being discriminatory. The phenomenom I described is documented. You know how bad it makes you look that you got annoyed just because I pointed it out?

You don't need two words for what is essentially the same thing with different sex organs. However, if it was purely about flagging the gender of characters, there would be maslash and femslash. But we don't use that, because everyone knows that male is the default gender. It's sexist.

You can tell me to "get off my soapbox" and that it's up to the admins all you like. It won't stop it being sexist. It won't stop you being sexist when you say it.

IDK If I understand you correctly. What phenomenon you just described? Femslash v Slash? If so, links plz.

EDITS~ And I'm not sexist, but lol.

It is for classification purposes, and you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I'm sure that there are a lot of disgusting, unintelligent males who find femslash to be oh so sexually arousing for the reasons you suggest, but saying that the mere distinction is sexist lacks reasoning. Just because something has fem- in front of it does not make it sexist. Slash means gay, femslash means lesbian, because it is borrowing from the word "slash," which originally meant relationships between males. Having a term called "maslash" would be redundant, since slash is already understood to be about gay men. Thus, femslash was coined to distinguish the two. If slash began as solely lesbian relationships, there is no doubt in my mind that "maslash" would have arose instead of femslash.

Discrimination is not an issue here. It is a word. A word is a word is a word. If there was a serious disconnect between the two audiences, the audiences themselves would be sexist, not the term. And besides, horny girls who go crazy over PatD and MCR pairings are really no different than men who love to look at lesbians. Both genres are, essentially, sexist, especially if one applies your reasoning. They both feature a particular gender as more or less a sex object. Furthermore, I don't think you have any right to tell anyone that they are sexist for using a word. It is not intended to be hurtful or degrading when most people use it, and very few people seem to truly find it offensive. I think that your argument is digging much too deep, and looking for something that isn't really there. I understand that it is the edgy and hip new trend to find every single subject in some way offensive, but most of the time it's only as discriminatory as you make it. I don't believe that every aspect of life is flawed on a fundamental level and must be reformed because it is offensive/discriminatory/hurtful/etc. That breeds blind political correctness, which, like blind political incorrectness, is never good.

Oh? By whose standards? Are you honestly willing to let yourself presume the general population's opinion? I find that line of thinking to be highly judgmental and pretentious, personally. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them "look bad" or a "sexist." Your opinion is not law. And, unfortunately, from most of your responses, no one really agrees with you. So either we're all wrong and you're an angel, or you're just not approaching things objectively. I am willing to admit that there are sexist elements in both genres, and I can see where you are coming from with your whole "male is the default gender" argument, but I don't believe it is an issue here. It may be in other aspects of society, but like I said before: you're blowing things out of proportion again.

And how is that not sexist?

Yes it is. Otherwise, this discussion wouldn't be taking place.

So if I call your sister a bitch, it's not sexist so long as I didn't intend to be hurtful or degrading?

No, the term is what's sexist. Intent has nothing to do with that, and neither does how many of your friends find it offensive.

By MY standards. Whose did you think I was referring to? It made you look bad to me. It made you look like you were the sort of guy I was referring to.

And you are wrong. I am approaching things objectively. You are upset because you believed you "weren't sexist" and I pointed out that you use sexist language. That's a hard thing to take. I understand that. But pretending that I'm somehow overreacting simply because I observed that it's sexist language isn't going to stop it being sexist language.

In the end, you can say whatever you like. All I can hope is that you'll feel bad about it when you do.

I still don't get how the term is sexist in the first place. Going by what you said before, you seem to be operating under the assumption that all femslash is derogatory and made only to titillate males who like imagining two women having sex, but then those men can then come in and "set them straight", so to speak. Honestly... I'm sure some men think these things, but just because one person is like this, that doesn't mean the whole genre, and everyone in it, is like so. Femslash doesn't stand for "two girls going at it for a man's pleasure so he can imagine himself swooping in and curing the girls". It means "fiction between female characters, where those women share a romantic interest with each other".

The term took an evolutionary path as such: first there was slash. This term was coined to originally mean "fiction between male characters who share a romantic interest with each other" --in the beginning, this was purely for fanfiction, though it evolved beyond that to apply for other areas as well. Femslash becoming a term came a lot later, long after slash was established as being just between two males. Female homosexual relationships in fanfiction were far less common in the time when slash first started out (and it still is much less common), though when it began growing in numbers, there came a need to coin a term for that too. Thus, femslash. Now, slash can be used as the umbrella term for both m/m slash and f/f slash, but it's usually used only to refer to m/m, and that's been understood in the fandom for a LONG time.

I don't see how a simple term to differentiate between two separate things is really all that bad. I can't tell the difference between giving slash and femslash separate identifiable names, and, say... calling men's underwear tighty-whities and women's underwear panties. They're both underwear, right? Sure. But does it hurt anything to differentiate? No, sometimes it's very useful. If I'm looking for some underwear, I'd like panties please. When I want some slash, I'm probably going to be looking specifically for femslash, because that's what I want. Having a term specifically for that narrows things down, making it easier for people to know specifically what I'm talking about when I mention it, and also allowing me to find it faster without wading through unnecessary categories.

How is that sexist? Simply pointing out that one thing is a little different from another doesn't mean that term is meant to attack something. Sometimes it really is just to ease confusion.

Are you saying the terms male and female aren't useful in the least?

Half of the stuff people say today is sexist. Even using 'he/she' is sexist because it puts the male term first. To say something is sexist is more of an opinion now than anything else. For example, if you went and asked an eighty-year-old woman what some sexist terms were, she would probably name things to us that are rather normal... and some terms we did not know the meaning of.

Since I know lesbians use it then it's like reclaiming the word for themselves and making them define what it means. It's like the Pagans... a term used in many religions for 'evil-doers'... but many people are claiming that name for their religion and, by doing so, give it a definition of their own because they make the word theirs. The same goes for lesbians and the word femslash.

Oh, and another tid bit:

Some roleplayers use the terms 'yaoi', meaning gay man, and 'yuri', meaning lesbian, instead of slash and femslash. These are two Japanese phrases {also see shonen ai and shojo ai... mostly like very friendly males and then very friendly females - those these are not found as often} that are used.

Wait, but Japan having two different words for gay - one for female and the other for male - does that also make them discriminatory or sexist? Or both? Following your argument, then, yes, it would.

I'm sorry, but how is the word femslash derogatory? I understand, although minimally, how femslash can be sexist, because it makes the differntiation between males and females, but really, being upset by it (if that's all it is, I apologise if there;s more and I'm ignorant of it) is kinda foolish. It's just being picky and looking for an arguement if you're going to fixate on a term just because it makes a distinction between males and females. The distinction might actually be of use to some people. If I'm looking for a place where I can try out a lesbian character in a lesbian environment, for example. Also, there are a lot of gender-specific terms, do you find them all offensive? Is girl offensive? Female? Woman?

This seems to me to be a silly arguement which has straid off-topic somewhat, maybe we can just go back to to the topic at hand?

Possibly because it is not discriminatory? The definition of discrimination is as follows, "Treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit." The term femslash does not make a distinction in favor of or against; it is merely a distinction. Your argument that there may be some sexist readers may have merit, but the term is not prejudicial.

This discussion is taking place because you are making sexism an issue here, not because of any actual truth your argument may have in anyone's eyes but your own. I know that it's the topic at hand.

Not really. I'm not upset that you called me sexist in any capacity, because I know that you have no idea what you are talking about. Such accusations are completely ridiculous, and I don't even care that you may think I'm some horribly ignorant asshole, because your standards are not the kind I respect or appreciate whatsoever. I'm upset about the pretentious and elitist demeanor in which your argument is delivered, and underlying bitterness and obstinacy throughout. It's obnoxious and highly immature.

In other words, I think the bleeding heart politically correct sect needs to build a bridge and get over it, at least for the time being. The world isn't perfect, and even if femslash is sexist, it's not a serious problem. We'll never have a perfectly even society between all types of people. Sorry. It may not make anything right, but tough breaks. You can't save the world from itself. You aren't helping people by telling them that they're ignorant over such a frivolous, petty and trivial issue. You're just coming off ignorant and narrow-minded yourself, only under a veil of open-mindedness.

What a smashing idea! As such, this is my last post on the subject of slash vs. femslash.

SpazzyMal, I've just said that femslash is a sexist term. That's all. Because it discriminates between male and female slash fiction by gendering female slash.

However, since everyone is so interested, go look up the Bechdel test. The reason "femslash" were far less common in fanfiction is because well-rounded female characters were (are) far less common in fandoms.

GMonkey has addressed this lack in the Harry Potter fandom, for example.

That's not just sexism, that's ingrained male privilage in fiction which as you've just explained, led directly to the invention of the sexist term in the first place.

Radsos, are you trying to say that because a huge portion of the population is sexist, that sexism is therefore alright?

Sexism isn't dependent on how something was intended, or how it was received. It exists regardless. You can be unintentionally sexist, which is what I believe is happening when people unthinkingly use terms like femslash. Some people are more likely to notice sexism than others, that's all. Amazingly, it's usually the people who've been on the receiving end of it.

I don't know anything about Japanese language. Is it like French? Because a gendered language is vastly different to a binary opposition.

Alright, then the terms male/female is sexist. Gay/lesbian is sexist. Hell, heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual/pansexual/transsexual is all sexist because it breaks down sexual relationships when it's all really just the same thing with different parts. Why not just throw it all under the category of "sex"?

And blonde/brunette is discriminatory. Because, y'know, it's all just hair. Who cares if there are different types?

*shakes head*

Distinguishing between things is not discriminatory. To me, it feels like it would be more insulting not to distinguish between things and to throw them all into one big category as though they both don't have their own identities.

So not seeing how femslash is sexist. Het lets people know something is going to have a male and female relationship. Slash lets people know it will be malexmale. And femslash lets people know it will be femalexfemale. People have their preferences, and not wanting to read about one or the other, or wanting to read about specifically one type? Ain't nothin' wrong with that. I agree people read way too much into this and reeeally need to loosen up a bit. x3

Anyway! What was the topic before we got derailed? xD Evil admins?

discrimination: the power of making fine distinctions.

Oooh. Scary. Let's never do THAT!

I think the topic was slash boards and what they really are, or what someone means when they ask for one.

And I think it's up to that person to specify if they mean: gay-sex-heavy, gay-friendly, or etc.

There. Done.

Has anyone ever seen a site where homosexual shippings were not allowed?

Yep, I've seen a couple. One by some chick that claimed in the site rules that she was religious and that's why it wasn't allowed.

Doesn't bother me, really. People are free to put whatever rules they want on their game. It's just not a game I'd join. :3