So, the two forums I've been working on lately seem to have been put on hold at the moment, due to the fact that the other Admins on these boards are busy lately. Therefore, my friends and I have decided to redo an old Star Wars forum we used to own years ago. All has been going well, and I am very happy with it at the moment. I will say so, whether this sounds arrogant or not: the graphics ROCK! I am so happy with them, and very proud of myself. There's just a problem:

Every forum I've ever been staff on has had most, if not all, the members use graphics that are really horrible quality. Then I look at other forums, and all the members have kickass graphics. I wonder: what am I doing wrong? My friends and I have made a really good-looking, nice quality forum, and I'm afraid that some people will come on the board with some ugly avatars & sigs.

How can I avoid this problem? The forum isn't open yet, so I can build my foundation now before it's too late. Are there certain rules I should put into place? Should I make sure that the Admins and I have cool graphics to motivate members to do the same?
Also, some forums have all their members have signatures with images that are around 150px - 200px large, instead of having a bunch of 100px by 100px avatars. How can I make sure that people will go for the large signature images rather than the standard avatars?

Any help will be much appreciated!

Not everyone is going to be good at making graphics. Some people just have a Paint program that they fiddle around in, other people have Photoshop but even after playing around aren't very good at making sigs and what not. I, for example, am pretty good with making icons, but pretty much like...80% of the time, I suck at signatures (which is why I try not to make them for other people, because they usually turn out crappy) or banners, despite having had Photoshop for several years now.

If you have some good graphic makers on your staff team I would suggest maybe having a signature request section on the board. That way, they can make signatures for people who might want them (but don't force the new signatures on them. If they don't want a signature made for them, they shouldn't really have to have it, right?) and they'll still be good quality. I don't think a lot of people (or rather, I don't) look at the quality of people's signatures on boards; it's the main graphics that count, such as the banner and layout and all of that other stuff, because -that- is what's going to help attract your players. Although I would definitely make sure that people don't make huge signatures that end up stretching the page- that's bound to make people NOT want to join.

As for your second question, I think what you're asking is how to turn avatars off, so that members can only use signatures instead, right? So instead of my RotF Mods icon that I have for this account, it wouldn't be there and instead I would just have my Creative Muse Society signature. If that's what you're asking, then it would depend on your forum host, but pretty much any host has some sort of setting in the admin panel where you should be able to turn avatars/icons off and signatures on.

Also, the fact that you mentioned you're working on a Star Wars game has my interest peeked. When it's ready, I would love to know what era it takes place in and what the storyline is. I just posted a request for RP in the RP request section earlier tonight, as well, so you can contact me there or send me a PM. >.>

Well, I'm not a huge fan of putting a lot of emphasis on images, but if you are...

1. Make a rule about signature size. You can specify that you like them larger (give a number of pixels).
2. Set up a signature shop--possibly you AND your friend--and just tell members: you really want their signatures to look good. Go the extra mile yourself and strongly suggest they allow you to make their signatures. If you're polite, candid, and above all, totally honest about your motivation (you just want the board to look uniform and pretty), you may not scare too many people off.
3. Prepare yourself for some members who will argue with both of the above, and prepare yourself to allow exceptions.

I wouldn't want to join a forum with such an emphasis on aesthetics, myself, but... there you go. If that's what you want, those are some measures you might take to achieve your goal.

Definitely agreeing with what was said above.

Honestly, I think fretting over your member's graphics isn't really something to be focusing on when it's a -role play- board and the primary focus is not the graphics. I understand wanting to make a good impression for future members, but not everyone has these amazing graphic skills, as I said in my first response (I didn't make the banner in my sig, by the way- my CMS co-mod did because she's better at making graphics like that than me), and I think a lot of people are going to understand that- especially when they're not good at graphics themselves.

Most people get good at making graphics by practicing. The only way you can encourage your members to get better at graphics is if you can think of a way to make them practice more. And the only way your members will get brilliant graphics is if they work up to it from average graphics.

Also, web graphics are low resolution, so the practice of getting pictures from the net, modifying them and then putting them back up on the net just destroys the quality even more.

In addition to a graphic requests thread, on my board we have a graphic gifting thread, in which any member, when the mood strikes, can make a set for any other member and post it with the understanding that the giftee doesn't have to use it if they don't want to. A good number of our members are graphicy types, some of us professionally and sometimes we just like to make pretty graphics for people for no other reason than it's fun for us. So far, no one's complained about it, and one girl whom I made a set for thanked me, saying she was too shy to ask someone to do one for her. It works pretty well for us.

RotFMods: I completely understand that. Graphics should never ever be the focus and the only reason people join an RPG. However, there are forums (and for the sake of pointing one out for an example, So Bloody Strong from Sunday), that have members who all pretty much do the same thing when it comes to signatures and avatars. Even though I would like to see some creativity on my forum, I just want to see my members try a little to get some nice graphics.
Err, no. A lot of people will take (usually) 3 100x100px avatars and line them up in their signature. While this may be an easy way to get graphics for a signature, I prefer them use large squares or something (there's some like that in my portfolio that I've used on other sites).
(Set in 214 ABT, so it's about 200 years after the original trilogy's trio, and there's a war going on, more like a revolution, between the Sith & the Rebels - it should be out soon, and I'll PM you the link when it is :D )

SmathNa: I'm thinking I'm going to go with RotFMods and your suggestion of the graphic request section. Hopefully, if I can make sure people notice it, people will be apt to request graphics from any member who can do graphics well. Thank you for your suggestions!

Vanity: Hmm...I'll have to be careful on that, so people don't get the impression we are all about graphics, and not about role playing. But I'll definitely think about that one and how I can put that into effect.

Wisteria: I actually like that idea! I think I'm going to use it, since even I get that sort of impulse every now and then. Thank you!

I am still open for suggestions!

I'm not that big on graphics, find it rather strange to see how oh so important they are to some people. I vote for creativity in writing not in pictures. Role playing seems to be becoming more and more shallow...granted we like things to be presentable, people joining a site shouldn't be looking towards a members graphics (rather than their activity and writing quality) to decide whether or not they join. Hopefully, I pray that this isn't a case where you would tell a person their graphic isn't good enough to be on the site and that it doesn't meet your 'list' of qualifications.

However, if you would like to try and simply put the idea in your members' heads then put up a request forum on your site for you to manage on your time. This will not mean that members will use it. Mainly because these said members with oh so horrible graphics (with possibly wonderful writing) might think their graphics fit their characters best. That and not everyone has the right equipment to make better graphics as you seem to require.

Meh, there is a chance you might scare people away depending on how you approach this.

I understand that. But like I said, not everyone is good at making graphics, and not everyone is able to afford a program like Photoshop and then come out with these amazing signature graphics. It's something that you, as a mod, have to live with- especially since the primary focus of your board is not going to be on graphics, and is on role playing. Graphics made by your members should really be more of a minimal worry.

Like I said, offer the signature request section to them, but outside of that, don't try to force them to magically pull these amazing graphics out of the air. It's not very fair to those potential members or even any current members who aren't great at graphics, and it's bound to scare them away.

Ah, okay. I think I get what you mean now. In that case, I think the most you can do is have a rule stating that it's the board's preference to have its members create signature graphics rather than just stick in avatars/icons that represent each character into the signature. You're going to have people who probably won't follow this rule, and it's more than likely going to be because they won't have read it (they'll probably have scrolled through that part or something), so you just remind them and ask them to use an actual signature. If they give a reason for not making a signature, then it's probably time to make an acception.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that when people are joining a role play board, their primary focus is to register, submit an application if the board calls for one, and start playing as soon as they're able. Most people think of graphics as the last thing they want to do- they don't necessarily want to go through the effort of making a signature for themselves if their application is only going to get denied or something. So if they see that you're going to be raher...picky, for lack of a better word, about their graphics, then they might decide that your board is not for them and move somewhere else...and then you'll lose your members.

You mean the New Republic? :p Sorry, just making sure. I'm assuming that you're allowing Jedi, yeah? I ask because that's primarily what I play, and as long as your game basically doesn't involve anything in the NJO with the Vong and all that stupid crap, then I'm definitely interested in checking your game out when it's ready.

I think June needs one more person to tell her that RP should be about writing, not graphics. Because we clearly don't have enough people doing that. /sarcasm ..... But that's not going to be me. LOL. :X

Juuune. :] I know what you mean. If you are an aesthetic person and you work hard putting a site together with nice graphics, it does kind of ruin the effect if people have bad graphics. I know not everyone's good at it, but still, it's your site so if you want to ask that people put some effort into their graphics that's perfectly fine.

However, just warning you: No matter how many rules you put up saying graphics should be "nice," not everyone is going to remember... or they're going to think their graphics are perfect, even if they just slapped some text on a huge picture and save it as a bad JPG. So you have to think about if you want to be rude and PM them saying "Your graphic is not up to standard, please get another one" or if you'll let them be and hope others actually heed your request. I had a site where I asked that people try to make cute graphics or request some, but I still had a lot of members that just slapped a picture in their signature and called it a day.

I know how you feel about this, though, junebug!

Maybe as a welcome present, you could give each new character an avatar/signature set? That way, they have a nice graphics set, they feel welcomed, and you don't have to be mean about it. xD

And remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Something you think is pretty may not necessarily be pretty to someone else, and vice versa. Don't bash someone else's sense of pretty. =)

Good luck!

I like that suggestion as well. Especially if no one makes the first move in making requests and the request section just sits unused.

Or maybe you can just have a sign up thread where, when people register and get their characters approved if needed, they go to the thread and ask for a signature to be made for them. That isn't too much different from the graphics request thing, but it still might not be a bad option if you don't want to have a whole forum section dedicated to it.

For probably the 5, 680 time: I DO NOT THINK GRAPHICS IS WHAT ROLE PLAY FORUMS ARE ALL ABOUT. I just want a decent rpg here! I didn't know that wanting to have a nice good-looking forum these days was considered 'shallow'!
I also know that not everyone in this world has Photoshop, and I know that even if they do, doesn't mean they can make great graphics.
I will also not tell someone, "OMFG! YOUR GRAPHICS SUCK!" Because I want to avoid this sort of situation in the first place. But even if someone doesn't make fantastic graphics, I will not PM them forcing them to change all of it.

Ok, so now we have that clear, let's move on.
It looks pretty clear that the best direction would make a graphic request section. While most of you really misunderstood me, I'm grateful for your suggestions and will put them into use in my RPG. So, thanks.

You know, I actually understand your line of reasoning. I find that the players I've got who are better writers are also more aesthetically sensitive, and less likely to have those garish, popular-culture, awful-looking graphics. If you've got members who are reasonable, they should understand if you, say, gift them with pretty signatures; that's what one of my friends has been doing on my board, and it works really well. I love the gifting idea, by the way.

I also think the graphic request section is the best way to go, but there's one other thing I thought of.

I don't know if this is what you're actually thinking of doing, but if you are, I would not recommend making any rules against or strongly discouraging 3 small images in the signature. Yeah, I don't think it looks too good when people just throw together a few random icons, but I think if there's some thought put into the choices, these kinds of signatures can looks just as good (if not better) than one large image.

To me, it seems more of a stylistic thing than a quality thing, like the difference between black and white or color images. It's fine to prefer one over the other, but to say that one is necessarily better or worse quality seems a little silly.

Alright, this is the secret:

"Make something for the person above you" game. Best way of getting graphics, and the best way of improving that I know. Because you don't want to get crap graphics, and you don't want to give someone something they don't use. It's a slap in the face to put that much effort into your graphics and then have the person ignore it.

. . . At what point does the aesthetic factor stop being subjective?

I'm relatively new at graphics. I spend hours on graphic sites for CS2 tuts and then use the sigs around other boards. . . but really, I never know if they're up to par with other members.

If a "good" graphic is a super high-resolution image cropped and blended in with another super high-resolution image from the same photoshoot with a few textures slapped over it and Teutonic No. 3 font with a witty little caption, what does one do when one's play-by is kind of camera-shy, or the only pictures you have of them are utterly unsignature-able?

I dunno, I'd have a really hard time staying at a board if the Admin came outright and told me that the graphic I worked on for a really long time was too ugly to be on the board =/

T I L T, I don't think this about telling people they wasted their time on an ugly signature, or telling someone that their graphics are crap... The impression I got was how do you stop someone putting up a horrid graphic? As in, give them a good graphic before they put their own up...

I think June is saying she wants advice on how to get her members to use graphics that suite the style of the board, so not just a picture plastered on a random hideous background nicked off of Photobucket and text scribbled over it. Which I agree, isn't the best thing in the world to have on a site your beautied up and only to have a few members put little effort into their own stuff. It does make one feel a little saddened, so I understand where you are coming from.

Unfortunately, I'm not too sure how much you can really do about it. Like you said you aren't going to just PM someone and say:

OI! You are making my site ugly with that stupid looking graphic, take this one instead.

And although request graphic forums are a good idea, not everyone will go to them. I'm pretty sucky at making graphics myself, but I'd rather do my own than let someone else, in fact... I think I have two banners made by someone other than myself... I know another girl who would sooner delete her account than let anyone make something for her, because in her opinion her signatures are pretty and rock and everything else along those lines when in reality, to us they aren't the greatest, she made me one and used it for a day before changing it... So you see; if people don't want something made for them and prefer to do it themselves, not sure there is much you can do... :(

Sorry I couldn't have been more help... But I do really think that the graphic request is your best way to go.

Or, had an idea, you could PM them and say.

I like your signature, however I was bored today and was making some random signatures for characters, here is what I made:
What do you think? If you’d like to use it go ahead.

But then you’d have to made the graphics and waste time when you don’t even know if people will accept them.

Just because it's an "intervention" doesn't make what t i l t said untrue. It is basically assuming that these players are not allowed to learn--the biggest part of which is making signatures for a board. Probably your board. It is dictating a quality standard that can only be dictated by the person introducing it because it adhere's to their idea of what's good and what isn't.

Right off the bat, this is an enormous turn off for me, had I ever an interest in SF gaming. I don't see why players should be made to feel like their learning curve with a graphic's programme is the reason people won't join and whatever the OP's intention, that is the message, loud and clear:

Your graphics are an embarrassment to this game.

You don't want puddle-deep people on your game in the first place because then ANY notion of writing before arting goes out the window. I say give people room to bloom. If someone would like something from you, then yes, set up an area where they can request a graphic, but make sure it is COMPLETELY optional, open and friendly. Don't 'strongly suggest' people should use it, or anything of the sort. That's basically one step away from, 'for your character, you can choose from the following PBs...'

Oi vey, certainly. That's why I'm sort of confused... how could someone's graphic set for 'their' character make a site look bad? Granted it shouldn't even be in consideration when someone is looking at a forum and judging it as far as looks go. I think, a member's graphics have no effect on how the forum looks nor could it ever 'destroy' or 'dishearten' the fact that the staff worked hard on the forum to make it look nice.

There's really nothing you can do except 'hope'. Unless you wanna break out the whip and have them go through a thing where they have to have their graphics approved.

Bad graphics... can make a forum look bad... yes. But not the graphics that have nothing to do with you or your forum (and couldn't possibly make you look bad other than the person who made it), but a member's character???

Yes it's a turn off and I completely agree with Panda. Even the attempt of trying to avoid unattractive graphic sets leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I looked at this thread yesterday and the first thing I thought was 'who would be shallow enough to judge the quality of a game by the graphics of the members?' In my opinion, if you think that the banner and skin etc are neat and pretty enough, it should stop there. Everyone has their own opinion on what looks good and often that changes over time. And wouldn't it be so much more satisfying to watch the graphic ability of the members of your board improve? Then you could all look back and laugh at yourselves and your board would have a history, and character.

When I first started roleplaying, my idea of graphics was an image I'd gotten from google with a default font script reading 'Emeline' on it. That was all. Then my graphics got a little better, but they were mostly really bad. I was very proud of them, though, and I still am, because I taught myself to do it. If someone had come along and tried to give me some 'better' ones I would've hissed at them and kept my own. I would still do that, actually. If someone had told me outright that my graphics sucked I would've totally deflated and given up.

Panda's right - by doing that you would be stopping your members from learning. I personally think that encouraging people and talking to them over IM and mentioning techniques that work for you would be very helpful. I've had people do that with me before and it increased my ability greatly while making me feel like we were equals sharing secrets, not inferior.

Wanna solve the problem of images?

Use text based sigs. Problem solved.

Again:
For probably the 500, 000, 680 time: I DO NOT THINK GRAPHICS IS WHAT ROLE PLAY FORUMS ARE ALL ABOUT. I just want a decent rpg here! I didn't know that wanting to have a nice good-looking forum these days was considered 'shallow'!
I also know that not everyone in this world has Photoshop, and I know that even if they do, doesn't mean they can make great graphics.
I will also not tell someone, "OMFG! YOUR GRAPHICS SUCK!" Because I want to avoid this sort of situation in the first place. But even if someone doesn't make fantastic graphics, I will not PM them forcing them to change all of it.

You know, I just want advice. I just want to know if there is a way to encourage members to try to get some nice graphics for their sig and avatar. I didn't know that all of you (ok, most) were going to put a gun to my head, tell me how lame of an Admin I was, and in the words of Shade, leave a sour taste in your mouth. I'm serious: if I knew in the beginning that I would get some people totally twisting my words to make it look like I was Graphic Nazi Admin, I wouldn't have bothered. I seriously did not know that trying to have a decent-looking site was so horrible. Honestly. Did I not get the memo or something?
I also do not want to make my forum into a graphic forum. There are other forums out there that will help improve graphics. My new forum is for role playing, not graphics.

Like I said before, I've had people come to my forums in the past and use very unappealing graphics. Maybe you were offended how critical I was of their graphics, but seriously, they were horrible. I wonder if I put somewhere, "This site likes people who use horrible graphics." And you know what? Most of those people didn't even role play well.
I was sick of it. I worked very hard on a forum. I tried my best to make cool graphics. Yes, maybe you won't mind seeing not the greatest graphics in the world on my site. But I do. It's my forum, not yours. I'm going to be the one who has to stare at members' graphics and smack my head. PLUS, YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T JOIN THE SITE ANYWAYS. WHETHER YOU LIKED THE GRAPHICS OR NOT, WHETHER YOU THOUGHT I WAS A BRAT FOR WANTING A DECENT-LOOKING SITE OR NOT, WHETHER YOU LIKE STAR WARS OR NOT. I'm not saying, "You guys are so critical, you would like, nevah join my sites! >:O" I'm just saying, even if you liked it, you probably wouldn't join. I think the rp community isn't into Star Wars that much. That's ok, I don't mind. That's ok if you don't want to join. A lot of you have your own site to work on at the moment, and we all have RL, too. If you flat out don't like my site, please tell me & why, but I ask of you: please don't be so critical as the comments I've seen here.

You don't have to shoot me down about the way I run my site.

Look, maybe I'm overreacting. But I don't remember acting horrible, terrible, cranky, etc. etc. in my first post that could possibly trigger such unpleasant feedback. I don't see why I should dread every time someone replies to this because I know it's another critical thing against me. I just feel so annoyed right now is all. This will pass. I apologize if I have come off too strongly in this post. I also apologize if I have offended anyone. It wasn't intentional. I am simply trying to state my reaction to some of your posts; that some people persist to tell me off. I just want my forum to be a good environment. I wanted to AVOID taking this in a direction where I would say, "OMG, your graphics suck!" I wanted to know if there was an encouraging way, or just a simple way to let my members know that we would prefer them use some nice graphics. And please, people - the signatures that are just a box with the face claim in it - yeah, that doesn't take rocket science, almost anyone can do it, really. Sure, people get fancy with it. But honestly, it's not that hard. It really isn't. That's something I've seen beginners do. Maybe it was unclear in the beginning: I would never ever tell a member that they are not good enough for my site, even if I am advanced. That, in my opinion, is unclassy, unprofessional, and rude, all qualities an Admin should never have. Yes, RPGs are for fun, but I do think Admins need a certain attitude on how they run their site.

I, again, thank everyone for their feedback. It's nice to know what things will work for me and what won't. Although I was taken aback from some of the replies, I will say that some were instructive on what directions I should not take (but those were very few, sorry). While I liked everyone's suggestions, I think I will go with this: there will be a graphics request section, there will be a game where you make a graphic for the person above you, and people can request graphics from myself and my friends (the Admins). Hopefully, this won't give a "WE LOVE GRAPHIC ARTISTS!!!11!!!!11 YAY!! *huggle*" sign, and won't seem like we are here to improve graphics, but instead try to have a professional look to the forum. Yes, role playing is for fun. It truly, really is. However, it isn't a bad thing to also have some good graphics on the site, too.

Thank you all again, and I hope there are no hard feelings because of all of this.
- June

P.S. I hope that some people will look at this thread and find it most instructive if they would like to see some good quality graphics on their own sites; hopefully, the ideas many of you have shared will also help them.

I let people use whatever graphic they choose. If it really is that bad, make one for them and just like, give it to them and be like "Here I made this for you =3"

I agree with above. Make sure you have a signature request section. There is nothing better for a person with an awful programme than having something gorgeous made for them; believe me, I've been there before I learnt to use my programme. Promote that section, have tutorials on how to make your own, and things will get better.