I dunno if this bothers anyone else, but I get a little annoyed at those sites that require really long personalities and histories in their app. I mean, I know that some people can write a lot about their characters. I can too. However, when I'm just creating a character, and don't know just everything there is to know about them yet, I don't like being told that they need more history, or that I didn't put enough in their personality. I mean.. what if that's really all there is to them? Why is that so bad?

The worst thing about this situation, is that when reading through character bios written by the admins, they leave these things out entirely! Or they barely write anything at all! It's just so silly, to me. Or the fact that they reply in less than five minutes, so you know they didn't read the whole thing anyways.

Okay so this was mostly a rant but I'm sure someone can relate. So, for the good of mankind, on my new rp, I've asked for really only a rundown of a character's history. Yep. ;D



oops.. edit for grammar.

I totally relate. I hate super long applications, as I find that my character develops much more through actual roleplay than through an application. So I shall join your movement, and we shall fight the oppressive admins of the worrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrld!

I've always hated super long applications. I know a lot of sites that ask for 700+ words in personality and history, and like, 500 words for appearance. And in the case of Harry Potter sites, they'd ask for 300+ words to describe their Patronus (best memory) and Boggart (worst memory). So overall, you're writing like 2,000 words before you've even begun roleplaying, which is sick. If you can't fit your whole application (with coding and all) in one post, it's too long. Ugh.

I admit, I used to ask for a certain amount of words/paragraphs on my applications, but only like 300 at the minimum, which, IMO, isn't that much. Now, I ask for 5 - 10 words or phrases to describe the character's personality, with description or definition as necessary, and 10 or more bullet points describing some important events in their history. I've also become less anal-retentive about grammar and such. Let's just say after months of reading through long applications, I've removed the stick from my butt for my own sanity, haha.

I still require applications and I do request some members to make changes or work on their grammar... but I've learned that putting less of an emphasis on critiquing applications makes everything much more fun and makes everyone happier. Especially the admin! Less work for me, and more activity for the site. =]

EDITS: Oh, and a lot of the admins that request so much wording don't even read through the whole application, which explains why they're so willing to put in those word counts.

This is why I dislike applications and don't even use 'em! xD Which is why my games only have a simple joining form (and an optional, detailed profile that players can fill out whenever they please).

>_> *points to the link about applicationless games in her sig*

They don't work for me. I never know my character at first and that's totally fine with me because I will figure them out as I play them. That's part of the fun of RPing for me--discovering my character through play. Honestly, the most I may ever know about a character at first may be a name, gender, and maybe a theme I want to explore, but personalities and histories? Heeeck no. Maybe a vague idea, but it's subject to drastic change.

Whenever I try and figure out a character in advance, it fails epically. xD I cannot adhere to a sheet like that before I've played the character. Example: one of my favorite characters, I tried this with. I joined him and was determined that he was going to be a bastard because I wanted a bastard. I LOVE playing jerkface characters. Adore it! Antagonists are love! But when I started playing him, he took on a life of his own. Now he's goofy and cute and rather dense. Still has a little bit of an antagonistic streak in that he's argumentative and likes being right, but he's nice and not at all how I originally pictured him. It just...happened. And I'm hella glad for it because he's a better character for it.

It's just always felt weird to me, this expectation that you need to know your character inside and out before you play them. Isn't that what RPing is for--to learn about the character and watch their development? I enjoy being surprised by my characters and enjoy starting with nothing and watching them develop into something.

And with histories: word. xD Not all characters need a gigantic and epic history. Some of my characters have very dull, painfully normal pasts that just aren't really worth writing about in excruciating, painstaking detail. Of course all that normalcy goes down the drain once they enter the RP. ;D And I also prefer not having to write their history down in advance and have it set in stone--I like wiggle room in case I have an epiphany and go, "Ohhh! Maybe THIS happened in their past which explains why they're like THAT." If that makes sense.

I love profiles, though. <3 I fill out crazy-detailed profiles for all my characters as I learn about them.

...tl;dr version?
I'm an avid supporter of this movement. :B

I've been telling this to people for years, but I've seen no change. Tis a pity because there are many times when I see a cool site that I want to join, but writing up such a long application is daunting.

I have the same thing, Rhi-Rhi. A basic info application (which the admins use to create ID cards for the characters), and a longer optional application to help members develop their character on their own.

We have an area for Character profiles, provide each person with their own page (and user-created IDcards), and allow them to add anything they wish to the thread. (additional character information, timelines, history, relationship threads, plot/thread trackers inventories, etc.

I like mid-length profiles. It's important on some boards, and I can't RP without a character profile--on mine, for instance, it's really important that your character fit into the world, so we require a fairly minimal contribution (5 sentences on looks, something like 10 each personality and history).

I've seen some RIDICULOUS sites, though.

I thought of one solution, once. I wrote up a joke application, because they asked for so much padding it was ABSURD--300 words about each facial feature. 300 words on SKIN TONE. Dear God. But before I could finish my joke app (it took a long time! And it was actually pretty darn funny)...

The site closed.

Go figure.

I really like the idea of having the those character profiles! I should mention that at some of the sites I'm on xD.

But, yeah. I hate the long applications. I understand that the admins want to make sure that you have a good handle on a character but (as it was said by others) so much of my character development comes when I RP with my guy rather than having to think it all up for an application (which, then I usually forget).

I also hate when the admins lock you application after you're done. There have been times when just a few hours after I've been accepted, I remembered that I wanted to put something in there, but they wont let me! It's my character, why can't I edit something?

Then the whole hypocritical thing comes into play. These admins are RPing (or rather...just sitting on the Cbox and OOC boards) and they haven't even started their applications in some cases. >.<

Despite all this though, I love doing applications. Sometimes they're the best part of being on a new site, but having all the stupid rules makes me want to just leave the site rather than have to deal with it.

((hahah SmathNa!))

-Does a random word count sample-

Well, it seems that albeit random selection, I picked all the wordy people. Then I realised we're all wordy, so more fool me.

Anyway, I just did a random sample of asmm applications and out of 5 applications we average 4k in terms of total writeup.

I don't put ANY word limits on any section of my application. I don't explicitly state, 'this game is for 1337's only' and in fact, I don't think I put in any kind of, exclusive language anywhere on the game. 'Tis the way the cookie crumbles. Now, I browse through the entire selection of applications and I realise they're basically all like that. So that's an entire board of people that hey, actually, enjoy writing long applications, get something from it and still manage to find more to write about for over a year. Well, many of them for 5 years.

Then I looked at applications for DEM and it's the same thing. Long applications, with only one or two added to (mine,lulz) over something insane like 10 years. It's a biznitch we changed servers from network54 really, or I'd show you how super-lame my application was originally >>. Hilarious. You'd all be ashamed!

Anyway...so these things start out big and low and behold, they manage to keep on producing stuff they can do with their characters. Admittedly the DEM sample is WAY smaller because we have a teeny, tiny, microscopic member-base, but the same applies. Good characters and character development is not difficult with a long application and apparently, isn't that hated.

I don't much care what length people end up with, so long as they answer my questions. If they insist on adding six paragraphs to answer that question, or just to 'shut me up' then so be it. So long as they answered what I asked. Although in a way it is proof that you don't require word limits to get decent sized applications out of people.

I have limited experience of 'small' applications. AKA, I have never written a full application that turned out small. I have so much to say! most of which would require strict dictation from me to be done in any kind of thread that wasn't solo. LET ME RAMBLE!

Applications have become monsters. We should start a movement to change the way they're managed. Quite frankly, I'm not impressed by how monstrously big your app is, I'm impressed by how much thought went into your charrie, and most importantly, what roleplays you've actually done with the character. Length because of that is fantastic, but for a new character who may or may not be developed? Eh. I really don't want to read 300 words on skin tone. Sounds like a bunch of racists to me.

At AG, all we require is that you post a simple profile (no length requirements, just so long as the basic information is there) in order to start roleplaying. Some members have sketchy ones and others have expanded theirs to be extremely long and detailed. So far we haven't had any problems with the system; I get the feeling that most new and/or lousy'n'lazy RPers run away screaming from our involved plottage.

SmathNa: I'd love to read your parody app sometime.

Ehehe, when I join a character, my joining post is ridiculously short. I fill out only the bare mimimum--all that's required on my games to join is character name, species, gender, rank if applicable, and location. The other stuff in the form is optional for people who DO like filling out applications.

So when I joined this one character, his joining form was only--*checks* 69 words long.

But on the profile for him that I've been adding to as I play him and get to know his character, I've got 1,278 words down for him so far and growing, and that's without all the fancy decoration and links to all the threads and stuff. xD It's by no means a complete profile, either (I haven't yet touched the history section or strengths and weaknesses or the stuff about his abilities because I'm still figuring it out), and it'll always be a work in progress since characters, for me, are a constant work in progress.

That's also not by any means my biggest profile. xD

I have sections for personality, appearance, and history -- most other things, such as height, weight, likes, dislikes, strengths, and weaknesses, can go under one of the three main categories, or "other." I haven't put any real word count restrictions on character profiles, but I do require a sample post for that specific character.

Some people like to write more, and some people like to write less. It also depends on the character, you know? If it's a character you've played before, the profile's likely to be longer and more in depth. Personally, when I'm playing a new character, I like to set some basic details and let everything else develop during gameplay.

I would have to agree. >>; On my forum we ask for things like history and personality when posting a profile, but so long as there isn't one sentence there about such things, I'm pretty lenient. I don't like having to spend an atrocious amount of time filling out a bio or app because the site demands that it have as much information as possible. As I said on another forum, what if you want to explore that character a bit and get to know them? What if they're brand new, for that forum, and you haven't yet worked out the kinks? I like to have a bit of wiggle room so that I can develop a character as I go. Rarely are they perfectly developed from the get-go, unless I've used them before and have had a lot of experience writing for them.

Besides, I want to get to the Rping, not spend a week trying to figure out the character I've only just recently created who only has the bare bones of a personality or a history until I can think up something I actually want to add.

Applications are insane now. I like to be able to play my character out and develop them. You can't properly develop your character when some disillusioned admin who correlates advanced with long posts is telling you to make a super long app.

The only word count I use is "5 words that best describe your personality".

If they can't figure out that "sexy" isn't a personality trait, I know something's up.

I usually don't like having to write long application, but I don't mind. If I like the character I'm creating, then I don't mind writing long. Most of the application I write are usually long, because the application is where I'm first exploring my character. I'm figuring out all their appearance quirks, so as I think of them, I write them down.

Yeah, characters grow as you play them, but I think it's lame to say, Oh, this is a new person so I can write a short application. That implies you don't know the character at all. I try to go in with an idea for my character before I actually roleplay. That way I can write a detailed application and feel confident that I'm not going to be confusing and contradictory in my posts.

Well, no...xD when I create a new character, I don't know the character. At all. All I may know is what they look like, their name, and a theme I want to develop them around. That's it.

And I like it that way.

I'll write a detailed profile once I've played the character and have gotten to know them. <3 I have more issues being contradictory when I try and pre-plan the character than when I let them develop through play. When I don't try and pre-plan them, I never have any issues with contraditions.

For me, a character profile is there to help players understand a little about a character. It helps to know that a guy's a certain height if you need to know whether your character has to look up, or down, to see his face.

But to start off with, a profile doesn't have to say everything there is to know about a character. The player might not know everything there is to know, especially if the character's brand new. I allow my players to go back and edit their character profiles to fill in a bit more info when the character has developed in play.

So long as there's something in the profile, I'm happy. I guess I'm just really easy to please, and glad that folks want to come RP on my board. :)

Oh I agree

I find it very irritating when you need to apply for really long ... er applications. {That probably didn't make sense, but I'm a bit ditzy today!)

It's also very annoying when you need to claim a celebrity as your face/model (what's the word for that?) and then they have a section for appearance...but it's not just entitled "Appearance!" you have to have a section for Eyes, Hair, Body, Clothing ... Gah!

I don't mind writing a bit more for history, but unless it's a historical character (I ramble because I do love them) I don't really write that much. Yet some sites expect the detail of every birthday up till your forty-odd years!

And they also expect loads of paragraphs for your personality, which personally, I prefer to build up a bit more as the roleplaying goes on.

I don't mind the application system, but the overly long ones (maybe I'll survive the ones with the song titles for the section titles, but I'm not fond of them) annoy me a tad. 'Course I won't launch into a rant at them, but ... hear hear!

I just don't mind as long as there's some information to start out with on your profile. Long or not long, it's quality not quantity, and the profile sure doesn't affect your roleplaying 90% of the time!

Agreed.

I think that applications should be short and require the information the Administrators need to title you and whatnot. If you're joining as a certain specie, state it so they can give you some fancy pip or HTML title.

An application is what you use to:
a) Show you can write and meet the board standards
b) Have the information an Administrator needs to add you to the board (eg: member group, pip, member list, etc).

Here, here.

If you want members to fill out a detailed profile, that might be a bit better, but even that doesn't need to have a mandatory of how long it is! Some people are concise. o:

I've been roleplaying one character for 5 years straight. The quick profile on the site is 899 words, and combined with her second profile on my site, is 2143 words. I don't talk about my character a lot. @__@;;

Once you've roleplayed your character for a while, you start to get to know them. Then you could fill out a profile for the courtesy of the other members so they know your characters appearance and small details when roleplaying. (Although, even 5 years later, I'm not sure I know all of my character's personality. She has a mind of her own! :P )

I'm, by default, a member of this movement. My game's application only requires the bare necessities of your character's description. Like many have already said, I use RP to discover my character as I write them. Some of my most beloved characters started with only the essentials and a vague appearance. My very first RP all my characters started with nothing at all in terms of a formal biography: just a tiny germ of inspiration and an introductory post.

I never join RPs if they want me to ramble on about the placement of each freckle. It's stupid. Nobody cares if your character has an attractive mole on their left butt cheek.

Usually, these RPs with the ridiculous word minimums are the kind I wouldn't join in the first place, though... It tells me that the admin takes themselves too seriously and wouldn't be much fun to RP with anyhow.

Well, I tend to sway more to the "detailed bios" end of the scale. Though, I have been known to write far too much. (One of my bios needs to be posted in three posts it is that long, blame the 7,000 plus word history... I went into WAY too much detail with my AU Hannah Abbott, haha.)

Anyway, I don't think application bios should ask for that much. I think around the 300 words mark is a reasonable ask.

Details bios are important though. Of course people like to develope characters as they go, as real peolple grow and change in time. However, bio style application need to be a reflection of your writing skill. For advanced sites, it's really hard to tell what sort of a writer you are from a small bio.

Also, bios give other members a reference. For instance, if your character is supposed to be my character's childhood best friend, I'd like to know a lot about the character in order to start forming a history between the characters and think about how they interact with one another. Life long best friends shouldn
't act like strangers justy because the rpers dont know the other character....

I'm starting a new Maximum Ride forum and I'm thinking of having the following as my application form.

I'm not gonna ask for any specific amount of words for anything. They can give me as much or as little as they want, as long as it's detailed. What do you think?

i like paragraph personality write ups myself, i can tell so much more than just being asked about likes and such, but you could require those things to be filled out or something.

Yeah, but I think this way is a lot easier, especialy for people who are new to role playing. I know that the first time I had to fill out the application like that I was just like...gah. It was not good. I had no idea what to put.

Of course, if someone PM'ed me and asked if they could do paragaraphs instead of filling out those, I would totally let them.

This is my whole application, and it's auto approved. I can finish this in like five or so mintues, depending on how in depth I want to get with the PC because this type of application gives you a lot of leeway.

On my site, I have very short applications. I just wanted something so that 1) people make a commitment to their character, 2) I could keep a registry of the characters and 3) I could look stuff up if I forget who a character is.

That's my application. Short and sweet.

I hereby join this movement. And SmathNa, post the parody app. It sounds awesome.

We should have a banner, or button or something, that we put in signatures. It would say something like, "Small Applications Rule".

How about "Short&Sweet Aps Rule!"

Looking at this template, I don't think it allows for the opportunity to be as long or as short as someone wants. Applications like this ask specific questions and there is little to no room for movement and no opportunity to add in anything extra. If you want to give people the chance to be long OR short, then go for:

Appearance:
Personality:
History:

That allows for much more expansion and exploration, while at the same time giving the basics for a short applicant to fill out.

okay, I see your point. I was just afraid that then people would give me NOTHING, and I do want to know certain things about their personality and appearance. I'm afraid that if I leave it like that, that some people will be totally lost and not know even where to start. I remember what it's like joining an rp site for the first time and just being totally befuddled on where to start. Then, when I didn't fill out the app with what the admin wanted, they kept making me fill in more stuff, which I have no problem with. The only issue was that it usually takes admin a REALLY LONG time to get to the apps, so it ended up being a two week application process before I was accepted. Maybe I can post two applications and give the people a choice...?

I can understand the problem with long applications, and I have that issue as well, so I usually come up with two applications, one for canons and one for original characters, meaning ones you create yourself.

The canon application is usually shorter since most people already know quite a bit about canons, say on a HP site, so there's no need for long amounts of information. The original character application is usually longer since you're creating the character yourself, and we don't usually know much about them.

True, there is only one application on the site in my signature and it is kind of long, but we're only allowing canons at this time, so most of the information is a given.

Anyways, I don't really like long applications, like the where they ask for height/weight/hair color/eye color/over-all appearance/clothing style. On an HP site I'm on they have Strengths/Weaknesses/Flaws/Habits/Quirks/Patronus/Dementor/amorentia [love potion]/over-all personality. Most of that stuff, I could fit into the personality itself, there's no reason to have sections for each part.

I'm not sure what I would consider "too long" or "unnecessarily detailed", but I'm probably the enemy in this situation. XD I don't request a specific amount of detail at Meliora (no 700 word minimums, and I don't need to know your character's favorite type of cheese. . .), but I sometimes end up typing rather long responses to character applications before they're accepted. However, I can't say that I'm a major contributor to this issue because I've seen some absolutely RIDICULOUS character application sheets with requirements that make me want to cry.

The generic Meliora template:
Name:
Age:
Gender:
Race:
Sexual Orientation:
Follower of:
Occupation:

Personality:
Appearance:
Weaponry:
Armoury:
History:
Other:

If I'm being unreasonable, please let me know. The consensus in the RPing world seems to be that less is best (quality over quanity's obvious, but the finer details are a bit fuzzy), but what's really important?

For personality, I generally look so see if the following questions are answered (either directly, or clearly implied):
- How does your character react in social situations with strangers, friends, and family?
- What is your character's outlook on life (pessimistic, optimistic, realistic, etc.)?
- Does your character make friends easily (trusting and loyal, selfish and cruel, etc.)?
-How does your character act in romantic situations (does he/she tend to hide his/her feelings? Is your character just totally apathetic about this type of relationship?)
- How does your character treat his/her enemies?
- Is your character easily angered? By what?
- What are his/her likes and dislikes?
- What are his/her goals?

Everything else pretty much varies with each character. Histories seem to be the other big chunk in a character's sheet, and they're often one of the most difficult aspects to develop. There are a lot of foreigners in Meliora, so I often request that their histories explain how they ended up in Melly and what they've been up to since their arrival. If a character is intended to be a mage or a priest, I look to see if their history explains what made them want to take that path and how such a life-altering occupation was acquired. Obviously, I would want deities to explain how they discovered their power and all that junk.

I would consider myself a bit picky, but am I going overboard in my attempt to make sure that characters coming in are developed enough to be played well? 0.0 Am I one of those annoying admins that ask too much? I know how tedious the application process can be, but I'm worried that if I'm too relaxed with it, I'll end up with a site full of unrealistic characters that will ruin the quality of the roleplay. I'm really reluctant to make any significant changes to the way I've been handling this because of that fear, but perhaps lightening up would actually be better. :angry:

Admins of doom strike back with mandatory long applications! ):

So here's the story. I wanted to join a game, but it required a huge application. I checked over the other members, but their applications were MASSIVE. I really wanted to join, rp, and maybe figure out my profile later, so I thought I'd ask.

Sound good? Nooooo. ):

And the admins reply...

It's like they didn't even read my post! o: I was a little annoyed so I tried to explain...

Lolwut.

Oh, and they deleted my account...?

Lulz. Touchy.

...

So. >_____>

The challenge I have there is that I can totally see their point of view.

I'm one of those people who absolutely cannot start RP until I've developed a character, and it would appear that this site caters to writers like me. For me, my profiles are like wind-up toys: I turn the little knob while I'm writing the app and then let them go as soon as they hit RP. Character development is what happens after the start point of my profile. That's all the backstory, and then what I RP is what happens since then to change or direct them.

Some people cannot start RP with a character in mind, because they feel that a profile is static development and there's no room to move or change afterward. I have several friends who do this, and I have the highest respect for Rhi-Rhi, who runs everything this way. It's just not the way I enjoy doing things (I have, in the past, written profiles on my own when I join games run this way. I have a little form for it and everything).

What's important here is that neither of these approaches are wrong.

On a board where people expect to have static backstory development and fluid present development, it would be incredibly jarring to have a character come in with none of that backstory for others to work their character hooks into. I think that's what they mean by 'unfair'.

Of course, if their application contained ridiculous tripe about 200 words for eye color and 300 words for build or whatever, sure, they're wrong. But I think this is mostly just a question of this being the wrong board for you. You totally did the right thing by asking -- it's possible they could have had other suggestions for you and just shutting a door like that is never a wise admin move -- but I don't think they're crazy.