So, I have a very small forum that is in need of members; an application was posted today that just really makes me cringe. I politely and kindly explained the various problems with it, and the poster made a few changes and told me I could change what I wanted. I hate turning away people- how will they ever improve, unless given the chance to role-play with better writers?- but I'm just dying to say "I don't think that we're really a good fit, sorry." What do I do?

I've come across that problem.

Usually I make them give a smaple rp of at least 4 paragrpahs. Usually that helps.

If not, or you have that in place. Pm them, letting them know (gentally) that you don't think this is the right place for them.

Sometimes I make part of my apps require experience. That can be helpful too.

There is an important question to ask yourself when faced with applications like this:

Will anyone play with this member?

Yes, people do get better sometimes by playing with better writers, however, that will -never- happen if no one on your game is willing to play with them because they are so bad.

As an admin, you usually have a good idea as to how your members will react to someone like this. If you think they will play and help the new member grow, then suck in your patience and help them fix up the application a little more, give them a few pointers, and then let them in.

But, only if you -want- to, if you don't, then you are not obliged to help them and let them in your game. People have standards for everything, and there is nothing wrong with that. So if you don't want someone of that skill level on your game, or you don't want to help them (and there is nothing that requires you to, and there is no reason to feel bad for not wanting to) then just politely explain that they wouldn't fit in with your game, give them a few pointers for the future, and send them on their way.

Your choice is simple but this is your game, this is not something we know much about. Denying a person is a circumstantial thing. It depends on the game and the capabilities of the people involved. It depends on what you want out of a game. It's all very well for us to go, 'no! that's not fair! You're a snob!' Or whatever, and it's fine for us to toot our, 'everyone deserves a chance', horn, but we're not on your game, we're not enduring it. It's down to what's best for you and yours, not any worries you might have about coming off as an evil cow. That's neither here nor there.

So...you can either:

Live with it and hope they improve. You can hope that your players will be tolerant and will pass on their knowledge. You can hold their hand and put in work to help them improve over time. Only it will take time.

Or you can decide you don't want to spend man-hours teaching someone you are already having doubts about. Do you play on a game with someone you're not comfortable having on board because they don't fit immediately, and trust that you and yours will have a positive impact? Or do you tailor your game to players who you know you and yours will have fun with, and who you don't have to hand-hold. There is nothing worse than someone joining a game who is below par, only for no-one to be willing to play with them.

Would you be willing to play with them? Create storylines, help them explore their character?

What do you have time for?

Just remember that if you make the decision for them to stay and realise three months down the line that they're still not a good fit, or they're a worse fit, you will come off looking a hell of a lot worse if you say 'no', then.

I personally have no problems saying no, but I am less likely to say no to someone who is struggling to meet standards provided they have sound ideas. That's because my lot rub off on one another, we learn from each other's styles because we're all sponge-like. There is no point introducing someone of a lower level of game-play if your memberbase isn't strong enough or willing enough to nurture them because then no progression will take place.

It doesn't help that I really am a snob. <_< I hate role-playing with poor writers, but I also hate turning them away because I remember when I was a poor writer. (Not saying I'm the most amazing writer evah, but I do pretty well.) I also want to make sure that I build a welcoming and friendly community, and part of how I intend to do that is role-playing with every new character, even if it's just one thread. And... I'm not sure if I can deal with this person.

I've decided to ask the existing members to look over the application and tell me their opinion- if I should continue to help them improve it, if they'd rp with this character, if they think the character will fit, etcetera. And then I'll go from there.

Thanks for your advice/thoughts, everyone!

eh, I've found myself growing more tolerable with new writers over the years. (probably because I'm a big sappy empath ). Provided that they're determined and willing to put in the effort, I kind of like watching them catch hold, gain confidence and improve.

Patience and optimism! Unfortunately those are finite and usually in short supply.. especially when other members get involved and refuse to RP with the newbs. :(

Tell them they need good grammar/spelling in their application. Complete sentences and the whole lot. This is a reasonable and usual requirement on many RPGs. If they can't comply then reject it.

I think Panda summed up everything I had to say really well so I'm not going to repeat it all. However, I do want to emphasize what she said about it being harder to boot the person later on down the line. I think I might have to do that pretty soon and let me tell you, if you think that rejecting is bad, this is at least 100x more awkward.

Think of it this way: Will the person persevere on the site if they can't fill out the application?

The application form is supposed to be the easy part, just a way for the admins to see that you're a competent writer and that you're not going to break site rules.

If the application is that bad, you're almost obliged to turn that person away, because they'll be out of their depth and will get bored and leave eventually anyway (unless they're amazingly determined).

Sometimes Ive found that this problem resolves itself. A very poor writer or someone who is not that bothered about the game will not bother with edits or half heartedly attempt a reply. In that case, they usually leave themselves. I've had to reject four character apps in the last five months because they were glaringly ridiculous mary sues. The players didn't want to complete edits and decided not to stay.

I think if someone agrees to the edits and makes a decent enough job, then you should give them a chance. We were all bad writers once. It doesn't matter how old or young you are. Everyones' been there. I look back at some of my earliest posts on one forum from two years ago and cringe visibily. I was terrible and mary sueish but I have improved a hundred fold through practice! I really don't like telling beginners that they can't join our forum because I feel everyone has to start somewhere and its not fair to deny someone the chance because they are not "intermediate or advanced" - to be honest, how can you be sure a member is that anyway?

I think the best thing to do is give them a chance and if you're worried, tell them that they are on "RP probation" or something like that (in a nice way). A certain length of time that gives them a chance to show they can write and if it doesn't work, then maybe its not the forum for them.

Actually, I tend to do what Ise says. I just keep pointing out edits to do. If they stay and make the changes, good for them. But most of the time, they just leave. Which is better, because then I don't have to tell them "You're not good enough."

Everybody has a chance. I tend to think that the quality demanded by my RPGs aren't meant for children or players under 13 (we have had a thirteen-year-old who RPed exceptionally well). But if they can do it, no problem, and kudos to them!

Well, he has been exceedingly enthusiastic and attentive to editing and improving his application, so I've approved him. Running it through Word did a world of good, and I suggested that he write in Word from now on before posting, as it'll encourage others to play with him, and he said he definitely would.

While enthusiasm is not skill, there's potential, so I can't turn him away. Hopefully he'll be an asset to the game. I'm still a little apprehensive, but I think we'll be alright.

And thanks again for everyone's input. :pink:

Edit: I wanted to add that he's made his first IC post, and having him write in Word first has made a world of difference! Yay.

^ If spell check's why you're having him run things through word, Firefox does an automatic spell check, too. And GoogleToolbar has a spell check option.

Just other ideas, to save him some time. I know I'd much rather just click a button on my browser than have to open up a word processor. (: